ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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It is your decision not to trust FDA, but please don’t read EWG. They are extremely biased. Their ratings are not backed by science and they are not even consistent. I am not a chemist but as far as I am aware, there is no single professional who relies on them.
I haven’t seen SCI in liquid form. I guess it must be sold in blends when you buy in bulk. If you can find it, great for you.
Regarding irritation, have a look at both HET CAM and Zein tests. Also keep in mind that addition of amphoteric co-surfactant reduces harshness significantly.
I used SLSa powder in shampoo bars with SCI and CAPB. I like it more than traditional SLES +CAPB combination. I think you should try it if you can find SLSa and SCI in liquid form. I just know that powdered surfactants can precipitate when used in liquid products. Liquid forms are much easier in use. Another good reason to use SLSa, it can be thickened with salt.
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@Perry, have you noticed difference in performance?
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Polyquat 10 is made of hydroxyethyl cellulose and as such has some thickening properties. It is also a “stronger” conditioner than Polyquat 7. I understand that “stronger” can’t be measured, so this is just my opinion based on my experience and perception.
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Going back to your ingredients,
sodium cocoyl isethionate:
I like SCI but it’s a solid and sometimes it misbehaves in liquid products. You definitely can melt it, but I wouldn’t use it as a primary surfactant.
Capryl glucoside
Haven’t tried this one, but as per my experience glucosides in shampoos are awful. They tangle hair. You can use it but I am afraid you won’t like the result.
Disodium cocoamphodiacetate:
Good one.You might want to replace first two. It is very easy to work with liquid Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate (it’s not considered a sulfate) and Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosiante. They both can be great primary surfactants. You still can use SCI. For example the combination of Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate and SCI is used in the most of OGX shampoos. But I wouldn’t go for more than 3-4% of SCI. Disodium cocoamphodiacetate is amphoteric and it will make your shampoo even milder. I would still add Polyquat 10, but it’s up to you. I see some adding glycerin to shampoos but I am not persuaded it has any benefit in rinse off product.
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Our skin is designed to be a barrier. It is very difficult to make it absorbing anything. Formulators put a lot of effort to deliver ingredients deeper than stratum corneum (for topical medications for example). It is true than some surfactants are harsher than others, but you shouldn’t be worried about skin absorbing your shampoo. It won’t happen. I understand that information in the internet is extremely confusing and there is a lot of fear marketing.
Look for reliable scientific papers, and don’t read what beauty bloggers say.
You can even formulate good product with Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and it won’t destroy your skin or hair.Skincare ingredients are highly regulated. If FDA allows it, you can be sure it’s safe. Look at ingredients list of companies that sell in the US and Europe. If you an the ingredient there it must be safe.
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Forgot to mention the LOI above is a foundation by La Prairie.
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I am actually a big fan of polyquaternium 10 and think it should stay. I tried several polyquats and it’s my favorite. I also add it to sulfate free formulas for its thickening properties, although I understand Perry’s point. It’s the same thing as using high molecular weight HA as a thickener (which I also must admit being guilty of). Expensive and not the most effective approach. But if you use it for it’s conditioning properties anyway, it’s great to have a bonus of extra thickening, as sulfate free surfactants are not very easy to thicken.
@Rimshah, I just want to clarify, there’s nothing wrong with sulfates. They are effective and easy to work with. I use both but prefer milder surfactants for every day use.
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@Rimshah, if you want a mild formula consider following surfactants: SCI, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate, Sodium Cocoyl Gluconate plus CAPB or CAHS.
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Is it something like soap nuts? I guess there is single INCI for them, search of the word “Saponin” on ulprospector only gives some plant extracts.
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@Skylark, I don’t speak a single word in Italian, but google chrome kindly offers to translate pages on foreign languages
I am new to lipsticks, and only tried to make stick versions (maybe I will get into liquid one day). I used that Trimethylsiloxysilicate and Cyclopentasiloxane blend and I like it very much. It has good film forming properties and makes the product more long wearing. It’s a viscous oil soluble liquid. I achieved pretty matte finish with 10% of the above mentioned film former, 1% of boron nitride and 0.5% of silica.
There is also another interesting product on that italian website: https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/gb/gc-syl-mat-gr-25
I haven’t tried it yet but going to get it. Sounds as a good ingredient for matte finish products. -
Also the term natural isn’t defined. You might want to do something like COSMOS or Ecocert certified. But there is no such thing as “natural”.
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I haven’t used it but from a quick search I can see it’s a plant based ester. Think of it as oil for the purpose of this conversation. Oils reduce foam and detergent cleansing abilities. As such I don’t advice you to add it to shampoo.
Regarding natural products.. What detergents are you planning to use? The only so called natural that comes to my mind are glucosides. And they make terrible shampoo. -
Got it! Thank you.
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I am speaking as an advanced user rather than a formulator. The issue with so called build up is severely exaggerated. I wash my hair three times a week and use shampoo with 0.8% of Polyquaternium 10, 0.7% of Polyquaternium 11, and 1% of Amodimethicone (blend).
On the top of it I use conditioner with 5% of cetrimonium chloride, silicones and again Polyquaternium 10.
And I finish this routine with a very simple but extremely efficient detangler: 20% of dimethicone 1000 +80% of cyclomethicone. If after all of this I don’t have a “build up” I don’t know who would.
I use a clarifying shampoo 1-2 times a month to make sure there is no build up but to be honest I don’t think it’s even necessary.
But if you are worried so much, just add cationics and silicones to the conditioner and don’t apply it close to roots.
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Thank you for clarification @MarkBroussard. I can see C=C bonds in the benzoic acid part of C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate. Does it mean it’s unsaturated, or I am over simplifying it? Is there a simple way to tell which ester is unsaturated? Small suppliers usually don’t disclose much and I can’t find fatty acid profiles for esters online. There are plenty for vegetable oils…
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There are other fillers, such as sericite mica and talc that you can use instead of clay. TiO2 will make the product too light.
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Perry, I saw it in very expensive and high end products below 1% line and always struggled to understand why it’s even there. You confirmed my guess.
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I formulate glycolic acid toner with lower pH than most commercial products (for my own use) and was considering whether I should replace it to mandelic, but after what you guys confirmed I see no reason. I assume that mandelic should be less irritating due to HMW but since my skin is fine with glycolic I won’t bother.
Thank you all!
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@PetalPoppet2309, agree with two previous commentators. Magnetic stirrer is good to have but not a must.
You are looking for this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ztopia-Commercial-Professional-Laboratory-Cosmetics/dp/B07CPQJXTF/ref=asc_df_B07CPQJXTF/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310821873791&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8725948820851541307&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=aud-548500765412:pla-700502428015&psc=1It is sufficient for home lab. I can easily process 500gr of viscous cream (nivea type) or 1lt of lower viscosity emulsion.
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Thank you @EVchem. That’s what I understood as well. Apparently it’s more lipophilic than glycolic which explains why it’s mixed with salicylic and tested on acneic skin, but literally nothing on pigmentation (from reliable sources).
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No it’s not. Especially untreated one. It will just sink and your product will be transparent with sediment on the bottom, which is not what you want as I understand. Get a pearliser. I posted a link with the one I used and can confirm that it’s effective and easy to use.
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Re: Triethanolomine, you know if you google really hard you can find a couple of articles that would state that water causes cancer. Not all sources are equal.
Both TEA and NaOH are safe to elevate pH. It’s just the matter of your preference which one to use. NaOH is stronger base and you need less. But you can buy a tiny bottle of TEA on makingcosmetics and that will last you for ages, while you usually can’t buy less than 500 gr of NaOH, because people buy it to make soap and you need quite a lot (it makes no sense to sell 30 gr of NaOH). So, if you are making soap and have NaOH at your disposal, continue using it.
And by the way, anecdotal evidence but just saying, the majority of Lush’s moisturisers are emulsified with TEA-stearate. I guess that since they are still in business and no one in the US managed to file a class action lawsuit for selling “toxic” cosmetics, it gives a hope that TEA is not “that toxic”… -
You need antioxidant to prevent oils from going rancid. Mineral oil, petrolatum, hydrogenated polyisobutene do not go rancid. As per my understanding (subject to confirmation by chemists) esters don’t oxidize either. So, no vegetable oil, no problem.