ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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@Majman , fruits are neither functional ingredient nor aesthetic modifiers, those are claim ingredients.
The first thing that comes to my mind is that fruits in skincare is a preservation nightmare. I watched a video showing how they make that glow mask with watermelon. They put pieces of fruits into a barrel with some liquid and say they preserve it for a month before adding to the lotion. I really wonder what preservatives are in that barrel and why they need a month.
Is anyone aware what preservation technique is that? https://youtu.be/Rzygqzim35A
Scroll to minute 2:00. -
Apologies for the offtopic guys, but since we have several pharmacists in one place, I have a question. I read on one DIY supplier’s website (who is actively promoting Easynov) that W/O emulsions are the way to go for the simple reason that they somehow improve delivery of actives. My quick search didn’t give me anything particularly reliable on that topic. I understand that not all actives can be delivered deeper in skin and most of them shouldn’t be. But since most of pharmaceutical ointments are w/o, I wonder whether this statement has any scientific back up?
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Is MAP an effective alternative.. It depends what you mean by effective. If your question is whether MAP makes skin lighter (that’s a typical claim) my answer it no, it is not.
To elevate pH you can either use sodium hydroxide solution or triethanolamine.
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Amodimethicone concentration is 28-36%
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It is not sticky but as I said it’s a bit too concentrated. I will probably increase water and reduce everything else to be able to apply more. It’s a good combination overall
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Another absurd comment:
“The iodine value is a measure of the relative degree of unsaturation in oil components, as determined by the uptake of halogen. The greater the iodine value, the more unsaturation and the higher the susceptibility to oxidation.”
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/iodine-valueIodine value of grapeseed oil: 130-145
Iodine value of rosehip oil: 180-195Compared to this, iodine value of jojoba oil is 80.
There are materials with a light skin feel that are much less prone to oxidation and some of them are even ECOCERT certified, in case if it’s relevant from marketing point of view.
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Agree, w/si are the best. I am quite obsessed with this type of emulsions now but it is quite difficult to find information, so it’s pure trial and error for me.
I am not sure if I saw a w/si that is marketed as moisturiser (unless it’s a sunscreen). I get very surprised when I find W/O commercial products in general. The only one that comes to my mind is Kiehl’s avocado cream.
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The reason why I suggested to get rid of grapeseed oil and rosehip oil is that I had quite a negative experience with both (which is sad because I like rosehip oil). An oily gel (gelled with sucragel) made with 50% of grapeseed and 50% of almond oil got rancid in just several months (that almond oil is still ok one year after, at least no obvious smell). I added 0.5% of tocopherol to it. Just checked the supplier, they say it’s 70% mixture of alpha, beta, gamma and delta tocopherols in Sunflower Seed Oil.
That could be just my experience and could be attributed to the fact that I buy from repackers, and you never know how they store the materials and what is the real expiration date. Maybe that grapeseed oil was very close to the expiration when I bought it and no amount of tocopherol would reverse that.
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Essential oils: keep as low as possible. Probably 0.1- 0.2%
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Re vitamin E: you need two forms, tocopherol as an antioxidant for other oils and tocopheryl acetate for skin benefit claims. As per my understanding and discussion with other more experienced forum members tocopheryl acetate doesn’t work and is only relevant for claims. So you can use tocopherol at 02-05% and tocopheryl acetate at 0.1% or less. As long as you have a drop there, you can say it’s there.
Rosehip and grapeseed oils: extremely high iodine index. High in polyunsaturated fatty acids. I would just exclude completely or add 0.1% if you want it on the label.
Argan oil: not as bad as the two above but still 80% unsaturated. I am not sure how stable it is.
Jojoba oil: ok. Might be expensive though. Consider diluting with something cheap yet stable. Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides? -
I heard about 3-O-Ethyl Ascorbic Acid and tried a couple of commercial products made with it. I however noticed they were anhydrous. Is it water soluble? Not all forms of vitamin c are water soluble.
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Hello guys!
An update. The villain is found. It’s the perfume. I run the same formula yesterday without the perfume and poly 20. All other inputs were the same. No tingling. I guess i am just sticking to fragrance free formulating.
Thank you All very much for your inputs.
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INCI % Aqua 80.5% Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0% PEG-8
Dimethicone7.0% Polyquat 7 1.5% Glycerin 3.0% Polyquat 10 1.0% Cetrimonium
Chloride (30%)1.0% Germaben II 1.0% Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it’s not easy to apply like that.
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@Doreen “ methyl glucose sesquistearate with o/w PEG-20 methyl glucose sesquistearate” is this combination ok for HIPEs?
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Re Dowsil ES-5227, I recently got Dowsil Formulation Aid 5225. It’s the same compound but in cyclopentasiloxane. I am still exploring it, but already like it. Dow papers say it creates medium viscosity, but my observation is it all depends what else is in the formula. I made a very thick but easily spreadable foundation with it. Stable so far (fingers crossed). The feel is absolutely amazing when it’s mixed with phenyl trimethicone.
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Oh look at these prices!!! Thank you so much @Doreen! I am running out of germaben
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It’s my personal preference but I avoid both stearyl and cetearyl in lotions for face. I don’t think it’s elegant enough. I either use cetyl only or a combination of cetyl and behenyl (3:1). Regarding stability, it is highly dependent on what else is in the formula. If you have a reliable conventional emulsifier, add polymeric emulsifiers (sepinov emt 10, pemulen ez4u, etc.) and carbomers, plus no weird ingredients and reasonable amount of oils, it should be ok.
I will for sure use cetearyl in an emulsified scrub or a product where application doesn’t matter. -
@Gunther, I managed to make a spray that is quite conditioning actually. 1% of PQ10, Amodimethicone (emulsion), PQ7, and PEG-8 Dimethicone. I will copy the formula tomorrow morning. But as you mentioned pq10 causes a bit of an issue with viscosity and it doesn’t spray well. I rub it in my hands and apply on wet hair.
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@Microformulation, are you referring to silicone based emulsifiers? Something like thishttps://www.ulprospector.com/en/la/PersonalCare/Detail/2668/110940/ACULYN-2051-Agente-Espessante ?
Examples would be helpful. Thank you. -
If this is a conventional hair conditioner you either need behentrimonium chloride or behentrimonium methosulfate as an emulsifier.
If it’s a hair spray, that cetyl alcohol has no purpose.Polysorbate 60 will probably work with cetyl alcohol as an emulsifier (subject to other adjustments to the formula) but that would be some O/W generic lotion not a conditioner.
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Enough for what? I doubt you will see any difference between 0.5% and 1%.
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That stuff must smell like a bathroom air freshener though
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You are mixing cetyl alcohol, an oil soluble fatty alcohol, with water. The only way to do that known to me is to form an emulsion.
If you want to make a conditioning hair spray however, exclude cetyl alcohol and just add Polyquaternium 7 to water + preservative and you will be ok.
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@Perry, I can’t agree more on the point about the best selling products. It is especially relevant regarding luxury skincare such as La Mer or Guerlain. They just go for good old petrolatum+glycerin for a simple reason: it works. And they use parabens, yet people pay >$250 for a small jar and don’t question what is in it.
I have a friend who thinks that she loves natural products and follows the buzz words. Her favorite hair oil ended up being cyclopentasiloxane, dimethicone, amodimethicone, parfum, and some fancy veg oil for claims. After the parfum in LOI. I don’t want to generalise, but they like “natural” as long as it performs like silicone.
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Please write it in %. It’s impossible to read in liters and grams. Does it even equal 100%?
Question #1: where is your emulsifier?
Question #2: what do you think glycerine is doing there?
Question #3: citric acid, ok nice. what it the pH?