[ngarayeva001]

@Belassi, I might be missing something, but isn’t jojoba esters a hydrogenated form of jojoba oil? I understand that jojoba oil is a wax by substance, but I thought jojoba oil (wax) and jojoba esters are different ingredients.

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation, Thank you. I also thought it should be like a coconut butter, but this supplier says it’s a liquid form that can be used for a cold process. Well, I guess the only way to figure out is to try it

[ngarayeva001]

I agree with @Chemist77. Used this one in a showergel. A game changer!

https://www.makingcosmetics.com/PEG-8-Dimethicone_p_103.html

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @Fekher. I am trying to understand if the liquid form is the same as semi-solid. I usually buy from makingcosmetics and they sell semi-solid wax like product.

[ngarayeva001]

Another reference for you:

PHYLLOSTACHIS BAMBUSOIDES JUICE, ALCOHOL, PEG/PPG-17/6 COPOLYMER, GLYCERIN, BETAINE, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, OPUNTIA COCCINELLIFERA FRUIT EXTRACT, GLYCINE SOJA (SOYBEAN) SEED EXTRACT, HYDROLYZED PHYLLOSTACHIS BAMBUSOIDES, HYDROLYZED CAMELLIA SINENSIS LEAF, NELUMBO NUCIFERA FLOWER EXTRACT, DIMETHICONE, PEG-5 RAPESEED STEROL, HYDROGENATED POLY(C6- 14 OLEFIN), HYDROGENATED LECITHIN, PEG-75, STEARIC ACID, PALMITIC ACID, BHT, POTASSIUM HYDROXIDE, TROMETHAMINE, PEG-60 HYDROGENATED CASTOR OIL, WATER, DISODIUM EDTA, ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN, PHENOXYETHANOL, FRAGRANCE

This is a mist by a high end Korean brand. This one also has a lot of not necessary extracts, but as you can see glycerin and butylene is a must for such a product. By the way, don’t forget a chelating agent and a preservative (I didn’t see it in your formula).

[ngarayeva001]

Good luck. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Spadirect, I am not sure if it’s biodegradable, but check this polymer

https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/PersonalCare/Detail/1431/46884/SEPIPLUS-400

You don’t need silicones if use it.

[ngarayeva001]

@Sheng, 60% of alcohol and no humectants at all. This product will not make a good face mist. It is ok if you want to make it in a gel format, but it should include humectants. This is LOI of one of the best face mists I tried:

AQUA (WATER) | GLYCERIN | BUTYLENE GLYCOL | ZINGIBER OFFICINALE (GINGER) ROOT EXTRACT | CAMELLIA JAPONICA FLOWER EXTRACT | PHENOXYETHANOL | PPG-26-BUTETH-26 | PEG-40 HYDROGENATED CASTOR OIL | PARFUM (FRAGRANCE) | DISODIUM EDTA | SODIUM ACETYLATED HYALURONATE | PEG-12 | TOCOPHERYL ACETATE | TROMETHAMINE | ASCORBYL GLUCOSIDE | IL52A

You clearly don’t need all these extracts and fragrances and you can add carbomer to make a gel. But you SHOULD add glycerin and butylene glycol (prefer glyceryn and propanediol). Depending on the budget, you can add hyaluronic acid. Vitamin E and a solubiliser is not a must.

[ngarayeva001]

@Microformulation I agree that it’s a matter of experience. I bought a lot of exotic oils (like cherry kernel, peach kernel, grapeseed, anything that sounded cool) when started formulating. I don’t know why but people just love fancy oils. Then I moved to the ‘classics’: jojoba, squalane, shea etc. I started exploring emollients recently (hydrogenated polyisobutene). I hope it means that I am evolutionating

[ngarayeva001]

That you @Sibech. This is why I don’t even try to formulate color cosmetics

[ngarayeva001]

@Sibech I am sure I misunderstand something. I am absolutely not familiar with color cosmetics as a formulator. It was an observation of the user.

[ngarayeva001]

Is there any rule (such as higher/lower amount of linoleic acid) that can be used as a starting point when selecting oils for different skin types? I just have a feeling that suppliers’ recommendations are not supported by any researches. They even make claims like rosehip oil is a source of vitamin C, which is a complete nonsense because it’s water soluble.

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @Perry. 

[ngarayeva001]

Guys, is there any scientific approach to choosing oils? At the moment I am just following the “do big companies use this oil” approach. 

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you!

[ngarayeva001]

This is very interesting. If their saturated fatty acid profile is so similar, probably it has something to do with unsaturated fats? Because I agree that coconut oil is marked as “high” on all comedogenic scales. I can’t find detailed breakdown for babassu oil. @Dtdang, do you have more details?

[ngarayeva001]

Babassu oil Coconut oil Acid Type Acid Type % Lauric Saturated 50% Lauric saturated Saturated 48% Myristic Saturated 20% Myristic saturated Saturated 16% Palmitic Saturated 11% Palmitic saturated Saturated 9.50% Stearic Saturated 4% Caprylic saturated Saturated 7% Total Saturated 85% Decanoic saturated Saturated 8% Oleic Monosaturated 10% Total Saturated 89% Other Oleic monosaturated 6.50% Other polysaturated 5%

[ngarayeva001]

@Fekher, you see, you should have just told us that you are brilliant from the very beginning and we would treated you accordingly. I don’t know what I was even thinking when started questioning your greatest competence and humble approach. Well, I am certainly “ill” if I dared to do so Gonna go take my pills. Have a lovely day indeed.

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang, this is so interesting! I compared coconut and babassu. They have very similar saturated fat composition. I have never worked with it. Is it an oil or butter? Should be solid with this amount of saturated fats.

[ngarayeva001]

I couldn’t find anything about this product online… Ok, lets’ try a different approach. What is the purpose of this product? You said it’s for face but the LOI looks more like a hand sanitiser to me.

[ngarayeva001]

@Doreen, my pores are far from perfect, and that definitely contributes to the problem but I know people with dry skin who have the same complaint. Chanel 320 rouge profound (check the color, it has a lot of red pigment) is a big criminal. I still use it, but less often than I would like to.

[ngarayeva001]

@Fekher First of all, the presence of a diploma doesn’t equal competence.
Second, you are not asking for help. You are telling professionals with many
years of industry experience, and diplomas that are definitely not less valid than yours, that you
know more than they do. So, your behaviour is perfectly illustrated by the chart
above “the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive
bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly
assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is”. If you “know”
that pH meter is not required, ceteareth-25 is the best conditioner, and
FDA.gov is a random website, then you don’t need anyone’s advice. You are already the smartest guy in the room.

[ngarayeva001]

@Sheng can you provide a link to a bechmark product. I checked their website but didn’t find a mist there. Also, what is the function of this product?

[ngarayeva001]

You are right. They are the same. I wonder why makingcosmetics and lotioncrafter recommend to store ceramides in the fridge then..

[ngarayeva001]

@Doreen, I just checked Evonik complex. It has a bit different LOI than the one I was talking about. I bought an identical complex (the only difference is the country of origin) from the lotioncrafter and from makingcosmetics. They both send it wrapped in ice (that obviously melted by the time I received it) and labelled it “to be stored for 6 months under refrigeration“. 

Ceramide NP (and) Ceramide AP (and) Ceramide EOP (and) Phytosphingosine (and) Cholesterol (and) Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate (and) Carbomer (and) Xanthan Gum.

Good to know. I thought all ceramides should be refrigerated.