ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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I agree that consumers love “preservative free” products (this always makes me cringe). The airtight container would be a solution if the product is relatively soft. The formula above is not too soft, but I guess it is possible to play with proportions to make it softer.
Thank you @MarkBroussard, I will exclude polysorbate at all.
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This formula is from DIY blog, so it’s definitely far from perfect. The texture is pretty nice, but I will need to experiment. Maybe it will work without solubilizer.
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@Fekher, I agree that a product without any water in it might not need a preservative, but if you use something in the bathroom, you might scoop it out with wet fingers and introduce some water to the product. And that water is sufficient for microbes to grow. A water free product in airtight container probably wouldn’t need a preservative.
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Thank you @Perry. I am a bit surprised that they said that antimicrobial effects are not proven. The study that you shared in my discussion about essential oils says that tea tree oil is cytotoxic and as such has an anti-microbial effect. I, however, agree that the labels (relaxing, energizing, calming etc.) that suppliers put on the EO have a significant placebo effect.
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Thank you @Perry! That was exactly my point. I will definitely forget that I shouldn’t do it and dip my damp fingers in it.
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If you are trying to make a product that is truly mild (like a baby product), you would need to use amphoteric surfactants, such as Cocamidopropyl Betaine. If you are looking for just a mild shampoo you can use Cocamidopropyl Betaine as a primary surfactant, with Coco Glucoside and Decyl Glucoside (as a foam booster at a low %).
I personally think that even sulfates are not that irritating when properly formulated, but it depends on the result you would like to get. -
Thank you @Fekher. Agree regarding Vitamin E, probably 0.5% is still too much. I am not using more than 0.3% for lotions, but I was thinking that probably since this product has so much oil I need more. The reason why I am thinking a preservative should be added is that some water can be introduced to the product during the use. Again, I am not experienced with this type of balms.
By the way, do you think I can replace Polysorbate 80 to PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil? I have recently ordered a big bottle and trying to find a use for it
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Thank you @Dtdang, that’s what I thought. It shouldn’t be liquid with that much of saturated fats (word oil instead of butter confused me). Grease fall is a very interesting concept. I analyzed a couple of great commercial products after you shared that article. Seems like they follow it.
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@Dtdang what I understood, it’s impossible to predict much by fatty acids composition (that would make life easier) I guess that there’s some true in comedogenic tables, but only as a high level guidance. I decided not to buy exotic oils anymore. By the way is babassu oil liquid?
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Suppliers do not recommend using more than 20%. Mix it with water, glycerin, and preservative and you will get a basic micellar water.
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@Mrs_ditdut, you excluded all gel makers and the serum will be thin as water. Other ingredients are ok. I don’t want to confuse you and I am not insisting that my way is the right one. Xantham will do the job and maybe you should try it to see how it feels. I remember how demotivated I was when my products didn’t feel like “commercial”, that is why I am saying that xantham gum might be disappointing. Also, experts are not “against” HA, it is just outrageously expensive. What I would recommend again, get a 10 gr pack of high molecular weight HA. It will last for some time (for personal use). You should try the ingredients yourself. It’s all about experimenting. My personal opinion is that low molecular weight HA is a waste of money. The high weight is better because it can be used as a gel maker for serums. Another good option is Sepimax Zen (can you get it?), but you would need to add humectants. It’s good to have glycerin, butylene glycol and propanediol in your stock.
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@Doreen, I agree that size of pores is generic, but you actually can make them look smaller (let’s say make them look their smallest) with Niacinamide (it’s not a permanent effect). It’s one of the actives that actually works. I will try to find a study.
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Disclaimer, I am not an expert however can adress one thing here. Most of your preservatives contain phenoxyethanol. It has a strong smell. That was one of the
reasons why I switched to parabens. I don’t say parabens don’t have any smell at all, but definitely better than phenoxyethanol. Also I think you need a chelating agent to boost preservative’s efficacy, but experts should confirm. -
Thank you ?
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Guys, I am not saying it is not overhyped. It probably is. All I am saying, it’s great for beginners because it’s two in one product (humectant and gel maker). Also, as a gel maker, it’s pretty much foolproof and creates a nice texture. Is it worth the money? Definitely not, if you are producing to sell. But it’s fine for personal use where a 10gr jar of HMW will last forever. @Majman, if it forms gel it’s HMW. I am not sure why yours turns to water. Maybe it has something to do with other ingredients?
On the picture: a serum made with 0.3% of HMW HA as the only gelling agent in mid-July. Preserved with phenoxyethanol.
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Btw, ‘for claims’ you can say it’s pores reducing serum. There is some information that allantoin reduces appearance of pores too. I have done research on Niacinamide but not allantoin, so cannot guarantee that it’s true. But suppliers say allantoin reduces pores
btw it would be nice if experts can comment on it. Is there any serious evidence that allaintoin reduces appearance of pores? -
@Mrs_ditdut if it’s low weight and you are going to use it as the only humectant (no glycerin, no propanediol) stick to your original 2% (its gonna be expensive though).
Niacinamide is proven to reduce appearance of pores and improve skin texture. You will get much more effect from Niacinamide than panthenol. Do some research about it. Maximum amount to be used is 5% (some supplies say 6, but reseaches show its effective at 5 and even lower).
As experts above say, you can dissolve up to 05% of allantoin. Propanediol would make your life easier but not a must for this formula. I had difficulties even with 0.5% but I didn’t try to heat it as recommended above.
Regarding xantham, I am afraid you will be disappointed, because the texture you will get is not going to be like some nice serum bought in a store. It will more like a ranch sauce (check ingredients of sauces in your local store, you will see xantham in most of them). You will only know this through practice though. And in fact your serum would do it’s job anyway. My recommendation don’t go above 0.5% and mix it with glycerin first (there are videos on YouTube on how to make a slurry). And keep in mind, it’s very important to make mistakes.
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@Belassi thank you, I could not understand why is jojoba different from other carrier oils.
@Dtdang I found this article, you might find it useful.
https://aromaticstudies.com/jojoba-oil-wax/ -
@Mrs_ditdut
1) If you use it as a gel maker (and I think in that formula it is intended as a gel maker) I do not think you need more than 0.5%. I made a serum today with less than 0.3%, but it depends on desired viscosity. Start from 0.3%, leave it to hydrate (will take an hour) then if you don’t like it add 0.2% more etc.
2) I agree with Perry on panthenol. It doesn’t do much.
3) No, you can’t dissolve allantoin in glycerin. Allantoin is as tricky as salicylic acid, if you don’t dissolve it properly you will end up with a sediment. Get propanediol, it’s a solvent and amazing skin friendly humectant. It also reduces the tackiness of glycerin.
4) Xantham creates rather unpleasant slimy texture in general.
5) Lotioncrafter has Tetrasodium EDTA. Get the smallest pack, it will last you forever.
6) If this serum is for personal use and you will use it quickly, you will be fine with 0.5% I think. But 1% is ok too.
7) It is very hard to say how much citric acid you need. Normally you would want a skin friendly pH for your product (roughly 5 to 6), so you should make a concentrated solution of citric acid, add it by drops and check the pH after every addition until you reach your desired pH.
Unfortunately, you will not get a real effect from allantoin and algae. It will work “for claims” but will not reduce wrinkles. If you are new to formulating, don’t aim to create anti-aging product right away. Start with basic moisturization (that what your serum does) and you will get to anti-aging eventually.
Hope it is helpful. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. -
@Belassi, I agree it is outrageously expensive, but it’s a really good humectant. You will not feel the difference in an emulsion (with a good blend of other humectants) but I personally think it makes a noticeable difference in serums. Also, it’s “natural”, as you noticed our bodies produce it and for some formulators, it is an important feature. Another thing, it is a pretty good gel maker, that is why it’s used in so many DIY formulas. It’s pretty much foolproof. It forms a gel even in presence of huge amount of active ingredients where polymers would lose viscosity.
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I will write detailed explanation later when get to my laptop. Meanwhile to figure out if your hyaluronic is HMW (most likely it is) sprinkle a little amount on water and see if it forms a gel (like 10 ml of water and a tiny pinch of HA not to waste a product)
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@jsmith14, using or not using essential oils is a personal choice of a formulator. However, I agree with the opinions expressed above. Essential oils are either phototoxic or cytotoxic or both. Please read this thread, there are some good resources shared by the experts.
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1) Too much hyaluronic acid (unless it’s SLMW). This serum would feel like a glue.
2) Too much of panthenol.
3) You need 2-3% of propanediol or propylene glycol to dissolve that allantoin.
4) If your hyaluronic acid is HMW you don’t need xantham gum. If you will mix 2% of HMW hyaluronic with 0.5 of xantham you would get a semi-solid substance.
5) You need a chelating agent to boost the preservative efficacy.
6) Speaking of preservative, which one do you use?
7) Why 0.25% of citric acid? There is nothing anti-aging and skin calming in this formula.
9) I would add a little bit of glycerin or butylene glycol, but not required.