Microformulation
Forum Replies Created
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CMEA (Cocamide MEA) is not a significant lipid layer and the glycerin is not enough in my experience.
isn’t glycerine and CMEA not enough as humectant and refatter
I think your initial problem says no it isn’t.Loo into the Lamesoft PO 65 or at least read the documents.
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@chemnc Another great question, especially with APG’s.
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I would add a refatting agent (lipid layer enhancer) like Lamesoft PO 65. Also perhaps look at boosting your humectant properties with something such as Methyl Gluceth-20. No offense to anyone, but without more pronounced erythema, urticaria or other dermatological signs of an immunomodulated reaction, I would probably discount an allergic reaction at this time.
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If you look at Data Sheets for the raw materials, you will find that the vast majority of glycerin containing products (if not all ) use vegetable based Glycerin. As many pointed out, “vegan” in Cosmetics takes a minimum of effort and really becomes a simple exercise of avoiding a minority of available raw materials. It is not a technical exercise rightfully, but really just a simple to achieve marketing bullet point.
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@Doreen That was going to be my exact advice as well. Try looking at some smaller websites, like perhaps Susan Barclay Nichols blog; http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/ and get a good start.
Also, even a trained and experienced Formulator, if first transitioned to color products would have a good bit to learn. I know @Bobzchemist has a great deal of experience in this area and can weigh-in as well.
We are not being dismissive or mean. You simply are not equipped with the requisite knowledge to do this product.
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Wow, I think you may need to see why a background in Chemistry is needed. Your breakdown needs to be done by someone with more experience in IUPAC nomenclature. Polyethylene is a part of many molecules, not a raw material.
You should know the function of each material.
There is a GREAT deal to learn before even attempting this.
This Formulation requires some specific equipment as well as some specialized processing to make.
QED, this is not a Formulation for a Beginner. It is dangerously naive to believe otherwise.
In addition, several of these materials are only sold in bulk. Small quantities are not and would not be available in smaller quantities.
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@MarkBroussard Actually I just a clients product certified using something like you described.
The Certifying body allowed the Aloe Vera Leaf Juice to be considered Organic if;
- A 200X Organic Aloe Powder was used.
- The manufacturer was authorized to manufacture under the USDA NOP program.
- They did it as a separate process, essentially manufacturing a preliminary product that is considered Organic.
- And then the Preliminary Organic Material (all certification obligations exist to call that Organic) was used as a raw material in the final product.
Of interest with this cited product is the fact that the Certified Organic Seal is not the USDA Seal. They are vulnerable to censure, but I wonder how they attempted a “workaround” of this. It is likely not allowed.
Off topic, but I sent you an email but never heard back. I wanted to refer someone to you.
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Keep in mind that it cnbe a tricky little material to work with. Read all the Technical documents and in an anhydrous product it may require high, high shear.
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In the big picture, it is not terribly difficult to meet a Vegan standard in Cosmetics. I find it strangely prioritized Marketing when used as the lead buzzword.
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You are on a roll today. Just need the embedded mp3 of a rimshot.
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I also imagine that if you were able to deliver any real concentration of active, you might find allergenicity progressing to anaphylaxis being far more significant than usual as well.
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You are pretty clear in your initial goals for the product. I am not negative, but I think you are going to find a gap between what is available and your proof of concept. My only thought was delivering an active vice a nonpermeable barrier, but what active and the OTC Drug claims may become a barrier as well. Also, toxicity, perceived and actual.
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My question is regarding a different aspect. 0.006% is a very small amount. Any product must be consistent in the levels of the actives, even more so here with the small dose as well as the fact that it is being somewhat treated under the paradigm of being a therapeutic agent. If you are harvesting the venom yourself, what assets do you have to confirm the consistency of the product? This is going to require much more than just weighing the active, but also identifying the active and confirming the levels with analytical equipment.
Biological systems (bees included) can vary in the amount of active constituent in any harvested product. Products must be consistent within a defined range for active ingredients. How will you accomplish this?
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There are so many better preservatives that are as well received in the markets, more effective, more stable, better spectrum and easier to use. Except to meet a Marketing demand with blinders on, where is the utility?
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It depends on how much you can buy.
Some of the Retailers sell the Retistar, a BASF Product (https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/75/14135/RetiSTAR-Stabilized-Retinol?st=1&sl=57946969&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbUmV0aXN0YXJd&ss=2&k=Retistar&t=Retistar)
Formulator Sample Shop sells retail some encapsulated versions.
Now, if you are a funded Contract Manufacturer, there are so many numerous suppliers and a Prospector search will give you that information. I did a product with the Devereaux version several months ago that worked out well. BE READY, they run t >$1500 a pound and hardly sell at under 1 KG MOQ’s.
They get the pure retinol and from what I understand, they get first dibs.
Why the need for “pure” retinol? Use a protected version. It is unstable over time. Unless you are a raw material manufacturer, let them make the product better for you.
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The Palmitate is Retinyl Palmitate, not Retinol, but a precursor. Retinol itself is a fickle beast and you would not work with it as a base Raw material. There are all sorts of methods by which distributors will attempt to stabilize it including an effective anti-oxidant system (likely not a natural system or want that you would design without follow-on testing) or encapsulation (a broad term for multiple sub-technologies). Some Cosmetic manufacturers will add special processing steps to further protect the compound.
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https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Retinol_p_1269.html
Fomrulator Sample Shop has it in Liposomal encapsulations.
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Retailers perhaps but the upcharge is significant. I am unsure of the base, I believe Retistar is most readily available.
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I agree. I think that there is such a gap between what separate camps would accept regardless. On one end we would have the Marketing driven, EWG, fear-based camp which has anchored its position in the fallacy of chemophobia. Anything which isn’t almost Luddite in definition would be resolved. On the other end of this spectrum, we have the larger companies which I believe might be more amenable. It would limit greenwashing but it would also make the market niche more defined. If they saw value in refining and promoting the niche, they would go for it. Of course, we are probably looking at plant-derived products processed more than the other end would like and nature identical materials.
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Great advice from Perry. You would be surprised how often I get blogs sent to me by clients that fail to meet all three tests. In the end, they are distractions from the R&D process.
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There is an easy answer to this. In the big picture, the initial study against parabens was flawed (Dabre) and the Science is still spotty. However, you must identify your Market and to be successful yield to the bias. In the niche of “natural” products, likely you have to avoid them like the plague. There are alternatives, but it will also force you to step up and utilize concepts of the hurdle technique and ensure good sanitation compliance is being followed by your manufacturer.
However, in some markets such as OTC and larger markets such as those L’Oreal sells in, they care much less about parabens and use them safely. Those of us that practice in the “natural” arena can sometimes have an issue with perspective in this respect. We are an ant standing on an orange thinking this is our planet while it is just an orange.
In summary, it is identifying and meeting the bias. Banning parabens is a market force which sadly has not made Cosmetics safer but has rather increased the risk of contamination.
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Don’t look at the materials as in “what is the most ‘natural'” but rather, what provides the best function in the appropriate usage. I won’t go on too long but look at the distributers literature.
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That is just what a quick search found. Whenever sourcing materials try the PCPC Buyers Guide; http://buyers.personalcarecouncil.org/jsp/BGSearchPage.jsp