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Perry said:

@Dtdang - Dry oil & wet oil are really made up marketing terms. And since marketers tend to use terms in the manner that best suits them, it’s fair to ask what you mean when you use the terms. 

Hence my questions. In all the classes I have taken and the articles I have read, the author/Presenter never tried to define a dichotomy between wet/dry oils. If you have a credible Journal Article (citations, credentialed author and not linked to the sale of products), I would love to read it if you can provide a link. I am really most interested in the Science over the Marketing.

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Keep in mind that this thread will be referred to by others in the search functions. There is no requirement that it stay on task.  The group is also building a knowledge base.

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What is your definition of a “dry oil” versus a “wet oil?” Is it referenced in an article?

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The Glucam line from Lubrizol is fantastic as well. https://www.lubrizol.com/personal-care/products/product-finder/products-data/167?productname=Glucam%E2%84%A2%20E-10%20humectant

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I have always seen disposable, single-use pipets. Attempting to re-use them is really a false savings. There are numerous online sources. I purchase them, as consumables about every 6 months.

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I have had clients request “No glycols” also. They really couldn’t say why except that they kept seeing “Glycol free” online.

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There are certainly loads of materials that have the same sort of activity (humectant). It is a whole class so to post a comprehensive list is not feasible.

The big question is why? Glycerin is effective, not sticky if used at the right levels, easily obtained and universally accepted under every credible “natural standard.” Could I replace my ground beef with air aged ground Kobi Beef? Yes, it would still feed me but cost significantly more.

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Since many of those listed are sold at higher MOQ’s, they may not be feasible. I would look at sites such as Formulator Sample Shop as they may carry some on the list. They also provide Formulation Guidelines and starting Formulas.

Honestly, Ewax is popular since it is so easy to use. As a mentor once said. “Use 25% of the total oils and add a percentage if it isn’t Polawax. That makes for an easy process but between it not being credibly “natural” and the soaping effects, this is an opportunity to use a raw material compliant to a natural standard and not “natural” undefined.

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I would have to say that the home is great for experimenting, but I would not manufacture and sell out of the home IN THE US!! Many States will set requirements regarding the facility and licensing.

Here are some guidance articles to start; https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/resourcesforyou/industry/ucm388736.htm

Please note that the general consensus of the FDA Auditors I have spoken with take the stance that anyone who manufactures a Cosmetic product, regardless of size must comply with the cGMP Guidelines; https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/guidanceregulation/guidancedocuments/ucm2005190.htm

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I pulled this off UL Prospector.

COSMOS Emulsifiers; https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gOy996_TzPPGFsk9AOLB67mlWqrXCdsY/view?usp=sharing

ECOCERT Emulsifiers; https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HdEASyC3QwSGTiX51SEotJNz94CtMJ1N/view?usp=sharing

Keep in mind that none of these is as simple as Polawax (Ewax is another variation) but the products are better. These emulsifiers are heads and tails above Ewax. In fact, I used the last of my Ewax in my grand-daughters STEM class since I never use it. 

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VictoriaBee said:

Can you suggest a place to start?   The majority of my products are 100% natural.  Others are at least 95%.  

If you are using ethoxylated products (Polysorbate 60,  Steareth-20 or PEG-100 Stearate), your product isn’t “natural” by third-party standards.

Also, 100% Natural is a dangerous claim to make. There is another thread on these standards.

As far as suggesting a naturally-based emulsifier, there are many plant-derived emulsifiers allowed by the standards. Since natural has no defined definition, I would follow the direction of these standards. There are numerous emulsifiers endorsed by ECOCERT/COSMOS.

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I had a line that attempted to incorporate lipids into such a matrix. They kept failing stability. I would be interested in testing a sample of this product to see if that is also an issue.

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This is really an opportunity to explore newer and more advanced emulsifiers. Also, with that INCI name, it would prevent you from ethically saying that your product is “natural” under all standards. (Ethoxylated compounds).

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Several of those are options. I would suggest trying the C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate and the Isopropyl Myristate initially. Once you have those samples, it will all come down to validating the Formula and evaluating the Formula in the lab.

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The C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate is puzzling and I can’t see how it is incorporated into the aqueous partition as well.

As far as the overall Formula, pull up the original Patent from L’Oreal. They have the IP for stabilizing L-AA with Ferulic acid but the patent is very informative.

I see these products with massive amounts of L-AA posted online a great deal. It puzzles me since I believe that a well-designed Formula meets the Cosmetic claims, usually with multiple complementing actives. A find the shotgun approach of “pack all the Vitamin C in you can” to miss opportunities such as this.

My last impression is that I am curious to see what grade of Carbomer they successfully used. This Formula poses some challenges in that regard.

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I do have to say that you do have a very good and pragmatic opinion on marketing. Many Formulators are minimalistic. Marketing drives a lot of the puffery. However, the truth is that a middle of the road product will sell with good marketing.  A great product will fail with poor marketing.

Keep that objective opinion and have fun. Since you aren’t selling have fun with the raw materials. So many times we believe we can design a product on paper and we disregard the lab work. Any Formulator can tell you about a perfect “paper” Formula that went sideways at the Lab Bench. Each of these cases was a learning experience. Have fun. 

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Also consider your longterm Busines goals. If the desired end result is to develop and sell a Cosmetic line, you need to really focus on that and try to stay out of the Cosmetic Manufacturing Business.

I have worked to start Cosmetic lines and I have consulted on setting up a Production facility. These two Businesses (Manufacturing versus a Cosmetic Line) are vastly different. Many posters in here have learned this and will likely agree.

To whit, “stability and micro testing” are studies that must be done correctly and are NOT for Beginners. In fact, my facility sends out all micro since I am not a Microbiologist. We do modified stability without micro and only this is possible due to a very specialized Stability Chamber.

If it is only a hobby with no final retail placement would I ever recommend someone follow your plan of action.

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Also allowed under the COSMOS standard in Appendix IV I believe.

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Step 1. Don’t manufacture out of your home.

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Sodium Hydroxide is allowed under the “natural standards” as a pH Modifier. The standards will not allow staples such as TEA.

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Sensiva SC50 would be used at a higher level. I would wager that they were declaring the preservative, such as Euxyl PE9010.

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@GuntherHonestly, if one of my clients used a manufacturer who would not reveal at the minimum the ranges in the pre-blend, it would likely be a deal breaker. The distributor (my client) has the ultimate responsibility to ensure proper labeling. As said, it would certainly be an area where I would expect them to provide this info for Regulatory purposes.

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You may want to look at your total solids. Between 25% Coco-Sulfate noodles and 15% Cocamidylpropyl Betaine, I would wager that they are far too high.

Total solids is a surfactant system is an important concept. You may want to read some references (nobody should “learn” from reading “threads”) and explore this concept. 

This would be the first area I would approach. Also, when selecting a surfactant (“surfactant of choice” is too generous) be sure that it is compatible with your other surfactants. That could also be an issue.   

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What have you tried? What is your starting Formula?

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Until you are making 6 figures the FDA will not know you exist!

As a US-based Formulator, I deal with the US Regs on a daily basis.

Incorrect. If you peruse the FDA Enforcement Letters, lines of any size can face enforcement. They have inspected small manufacturers. While a larger company will face more scrutiny, they become large companies in part due to good regulatory assurance.

In the long run, net sales do not affect enforcement.

Pilot studies of these “unique” ingredients are less likely if the claim or benefit is a Drug claim, as a “bioavailable” active (if this is truly accomplished) would be.