[Mel55]

Thanks @Pattsi, this is very helpful.

[Mel55]

Thank you @Abdullah @abierose and @jemolian

The pH is 6.0 and I use liquid germall plus. I do like the less greasy feel of BTMS on my skin. I’ll try a batch using your suggestions. Thanks again.

[Mel55]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

@abierose I will try a batch with reduced avocado oil and allantoin as you suggest. I will also remove the panthenol, hydrolised wheat protein and chamomile. I assume that your comments about these ingredients would extend to other products (for example leave-in hair conditioner)? Having read through this forum I stopped using them in rinse off products. I am really keen on minimal ingredient use. I have never used a chelator (other than citric acid to adjust pH), but I only make small batches and have not had a problem. I don’t have a chemistry background so am probably a little naïve in this respect. 

@jemolian you made me realise how similar this is to my conditioner formula! I use BTMS because I find the other emulsifying wax I have access to results in a greasy product. As I only make things for my own use, I am thinking I can now reduce my product list to a hair/face/body wash and a moisturiser/conditioner/leave-in!

Thanks again,

Mel.

[Mel55]

@Abdullah, sorry just to clarify, not asking for the whole formula, but I am interested in the percentage of SLeS you use as I can’t seem to lower it enough in my clarifying shampoo to achieve viscosity with mildness.

Current formula is:

10	SLeS
5	CAPB
83.5	H2O
0.5	Liquid germall plus

Na++ q.s.

So I just need to add 0.5 PQ10?

Thanks,
Mel.

[Mel55]

Abdullah said:

I was also trying to make gentle shampoo with APG but it was not gentle and not effective. As @Perry suggested i used SLES, CAPB and polyquaternium 10. Now i am selling it and it is the mildest Shampoo available where i live. Thanks Perry. 

At What ratio AOS/CAPB are you using and can it be thickened with sodium chloride? 

@Abdullah, could you please share that formula? I struggle with producing a basic mild shampoo for my own use.

[Mel55]

Thanks so much for your comments, these are all very helpful.

[Mel55]

This is very helpful @Paprik. Many thanks.

[Mel55]

Another quick question, would there be any benefit to including cocoamidoproply betaine (30% active) in this formula to increase mildness, or would it be of little use with this surfactant blend?

Thanks again,

Mel.

[Mel55]

Thanks @Perry, I’ll experiment with both.

[Mel55]

Thanks so much to you both, very helpful. @chemicalmatt, I also have PQ10, should I use that instead of PQ7? If so, I assume at 0.5%. Also, I have seen your early comments about avoiding fisheyes. Am I correct that when using PQ10, I should dissolve it completely in cold water before adding other ingredients? Thanks again.

[Mel55]

Perry said:

When formulating, you really need to start simple. And it helps to know how ingredients work.

For a rinse off conditioner to work the conditioning agents have to stay behind on the hair. There are 3 ways that happens….

Hi Perry, just one more question if you don’t mind.  I was just reading in a cosmetic text that behentrimonium chloride is a weak emulsifier and needs to be combined with another surfactant, such as CETAC, to be effective. I am questioning this as it conflicts with what you have said above.  I would like to try a conditioner with behentrimonium chloride and am trying to adhere to your advice to keep formulas simple. Should I leave the CETAC out?

Thanks again,

Mel.

[Mel55]

Thanks so much for your replies, your comments are very helpful.
Mel.

[Mel55]

Thanks so much @natzam44, @Perry and @Abdullah, your advice is very, very helpful.  

@Abdullah, I have been using dimethicone 100 but have recently been able to get 350. I have course, naturally dry and bleached hair and have trouble adequately conditioning it.

@Perry, how do these principles extend to a leave-in conditioner? I assume the water soluble ingredients can be included (but should they be?). Is BTMS or CETAC your preferred cationic surfactant in a leave-in conditioner?  Is the polyquaternium again redundant if I am using a silicone in this case?

Thanks so much.

Mel.

[Mel55]

Excellent, thanks so much for your reply.

[Mel55]

ketchito thanks for taking the time to reply. I’ll give this a try.

[Mel55]

Excellent thanks Perry. 

[Mel55]

Great, thanks again.

[Mel55]

Thanks all, so what would be your preferred surfactant/s for an inexpensive handwash? 

[Mel55]

Excellent, thanks so much for your advice.

[Mel55]

Oops sorry, didn’t mean to post this in the hair section!

[Mel55]

Sorry that should have been 2% salt. The SLeS is 70% active. The Coco betaine is actually  Cocoamidopropyl Betaine (30% active). Apologies, I have no chemistry background.

[Mel55]

Great, thank you both so much for your advice.

[Mel55]

Hi, 
I am looking for some advice on this formula.  It is just for personal use.  I have curly hair that is lightened so a little on the dry side.  I want something that will hydrate it well but not weigh the curl down.  

I have been reasonably happy with this but would like some advice on:

1. whether there are any ingredients that are not doing anything of value
2. whether some of the ingredients in the cool down phase should be in the heated phase 
3. whether the formula would benefit from 2% cetac

Any other advice would be welcome.

HEATED PHASE:

BTMS 50 5%

Cetyl alcohol 3%

Distilled water 52.5%

Rose hydrosol 20%

Aloe vera 10%

Hydrolised wheat protein 2%

                  

COOL DOWN PHASE:

Cyclomethicone 2%

Dimethicone 2%

Panthenol 2%

Chamomile extract 0.5%

Liquid germal plus 0.5%

Fragrance 0.5%

Thanks.

[Mel55]

@esmail and @Pallavi123 thanks for your comments. Melting it with solid ingredients has not worked but I will look for the other ingredient you suggest. Thanks @esmail for your advice regarding ratios. I am referring to supplied material but will check active matter. For a mild shampoo, what percentage of active SLeS and CAPB would you recommend? Would you recommend a third surfactant? I am struggling to develop a mild shampoo. Do you have a formula you could share?

Thanks.

[Mel55]

Hello, I am a home lotion crafter, just making products for myself and a few friends.  I am having no luck adding glycol distearate to my shampoo.  The basic surfactant formula is 10% SLeS, 5% coco betaine and 10% polyglucoside.  I have tried it without the polyglucoside, and have also tried replacing the SLeS with SCI.  I have tried heating the glycol distearate separately from the other ingredients (including water, glycerine, hydrolised wheat protein) and then mixing them when they are at the same temperature.  I have tried heating it with the other surfactants, heating all ingredients together and even heating the glycol distearate separately with oil.

The result is always the same. It forms a crystalised layer on the top of the formula.  Even if I stir regularly while cooling, the end product is lumpy and gritty.  I am in Australia and not sure what alternatives may be available to me to add mildness and thicken a shampoo.  Can anyone assist?

Thanks,

M