MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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LOL! @Bill_Toge … there are people who do some crazy things … I personally don’t understand the “need” to put stimulating cooling/warming substances on a clitoris … I certainly would not put it on my genitals.
Now. let’s be objective … you put straight 100% Vanillyl butyl either on the back of your hand … a vaginal stimulation product might contain 0.1% or less.
Your analogy is like warning people not to eat Tabasco Sauce because you poured the entire bottle on your steak.
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My thoughts exactly … Water, Glycerin, Carbomer, Water-Soluble Shea @ 1% … this isn’t even a product.
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You’ll want to add the EDTA to also help with consumers who use your product in hard water … it will help improve your product’s performance.
If you can get you hands on it, I might suggest adding 3% Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate to improve your foam and skin sensorials.
You’re going to have to play some with your % of Guar Gum to make sure you get adequate viscosity, otherwise this formula will be not much thicker than water. You may need more in the range 0.8%. You can try adding some NaCl to thicken (try 2%), but I’ve never had acceptable results thickening CAPB with NaCl alone.
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@Doreen81:
Your best bet us to use dried Aloe Powder and reconstitute it in your water phase at 1% for a 100X Aloe Powder … this effectively gives you aloe leaf juice. Liquid Aloe is very expensive compared to this alternative.
Don’t worry about heat … it will not affect anything relative to Aloe.
Yes, you are correct, Aloe has no documented evidence of being effective in skin care, but has a long history of use. Look at it this way … it certainly will not do any harm and if your clients desire it in their products … it’s adding all of 2 minutes to your formulation to add-in aloe powder.
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Why don’t you try: CAPB (20%), Decyl Glucoside or Coco Glucoside (5%), Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate (3%) as your surfactant base.
You will find that Decyl Glucoside as the primary surfactant will be very difficult to thicken.
I might also recommend that you consider Glyceryl Oleate instead of Glycerin. But, it all depends on what price point you’re trying to come in at.
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It was very common practice for us to use Nitrogen Gas to purge certain solvents to reduce the dissolved oxygen content. That’s what I suspect is being done here, just at much higher pressures.
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Yes, I think the “liquid nitrogen” was a typo or misunderstanding on the part of the OP. I’m sure it’s a can of water pressurized under nitrogen gas.
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What I would suggest you do as a first pass of research is study the competitive products on the market. You’re going to want to stick with aqueous-based products on both, avoid oils.
On the lubricant side, take a look at Yes! Yes! Yes! as a development model.
For the clitoral stimulation gel, I would strongly consider just taking your lubricant formulation and adding some Menthyl Lactate (cooling agent) and a warming agent (see post above) to create this product.
When formulating for the vaginal area, pH is very important (4.2 to 4.5) as is your preservative choice as the natural-flora bacteria are very important to maintaining good vaginal health.
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Obviously, testing is the only true indicator of whether an ingredient is effective or not, but proper testing can be very expensive and time-consuming. Unless you are the manufacturer of ingredients, it really is not to the benefit of most cosmetic brands to test the effectiveness of an individual ingredient.
For ingredients like Panthenol or Aloe Vera, which are widely used in cosmetic formulations, and are perceived by consumers as being effective, there really isn’t much point in conducting studies as a cosmetics brand to prove whether there is a measurable benefit or not. Those perceptions are already baked into the consumer consciousness through decades of marketing by other brands and/or ingredients manufacturers. So, proven effective or added in for label claims, I rely on previous research and consumer perception.
As there are many ingredients in cosmetic products there could also be a synergistic effect between the various ingredients so, unless you have an unlimited budget, as a cosmetics formulator focusing on the effectiveness of any one ingredient, unless it is a proprietary ingredient, seems to be rather futile. I think it a better use of resources to focus on testing the effectiveness and perceived consumer benefit of the entire formulation.
The “effectiveness” of cosmetics products are as much a consumer perception issue as a scientific issue. We’re all in competition with other brands that use label claim ingredients, so I have no issue with using certain ingredients that may not be rigorously scientifically-proven as the cost-benefit of doing so is beyond my objectives. Hence, I rely on a balance of previous research, if it exists, and consumer/market perception.
From a pure business perspective … what’s effective is what consumers like, perceive to be effective and what sells … I really don’t think consumers can tell any substantial difference between various cosmetic formulations … their perceptions can be just as easily influenced by sensorials and fragrance as anything else.
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@EliseCortes:
In that case, your pitch should focus on local economic development and jobs. You may want to consider your end goal to be to set up your own manufacturing of your products in your local community and the local jobs that will be created from the manufacture and sales of your products.
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Oils around a vagina … you’re asking for lots of trouble, imo. Lots of women get infections when oils are introduced into the vaginal area.
No offense, but it sounds like you have not done nearly enough research on the vaginal environment to formulate the products you’re asking about.
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Why don’t you consider using Aloe Vera Powder 100X at 1%, which when reconstituted in water is essentially Aloe Vera Juice. If you include Aloe Vera Juice (purchased as liquid juice), this formula will cost you an arm and a leg … it will be very expensive for a quite simple formula.
I would include Panthenol (ProVitamin B5) at 1% for the label … if not, you have absolutely no ingredients that you can claim have conditioning properties. You might also consider a couple of other conditioning ingredients such as Hydrolysed Wheat Protein, Silk Protein, Baobab Protein, Hydolysed Collagen.
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LOL! … I agree, Perry … I would not put it on my skin, but there are some products in this category that do contain menthol.
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You can try Menthol, Menthyl Lactate, Capsacin, Niacin, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Extract, Ginger Extract, Methyl Nicotinate, Vanillyl Butyl Ether or some combination of the above.
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Vaginal lubricants are regulated (in the US) as 510K Medical Devices and the required testing is the same as for lubricated condoms … it can be an expensive undertaking.
Arousal products that are designed to be applied to the clitoris to enhance stimulation, interestingly enough, are regulated as cosmetics.
If the product enters the body cavity, be prepared for a 510K classification.
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“Currently I am making natural shampoo with coconut, rice bran,castor and palm oil mix with caustic potash for the shampoo base.”
“I add sodium chloride, Gaur gum, D Panthenol, CABP, herbal extract, Glycerin and essential oils.”
The problem is that the after the use the hair is very rough and also a lot of tangling.@regipa … I think you defined your problem with the first sentence above. One interesting surfactant blend is: www.ingredientstodiefor.com/item/Rich_Balanced_Surfactant_Blend/
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@EliseCortes:
There’s no hard/fast rule on any of this. The acquirer does not necessarily have to be a large cosmetics company … it could also be a small to mid-size company that sees synergies in your product line and theirs. Essentially, they would be buying your client list … particularly if they feel there is a lot of cross-over between your client bases and you have well-established brand loyalty. It could be a company executing a “roll-up” strategy by buying several small players that have synergies in their respective product lines. The main reason for an acquisition is a “speed to market” issue. Sometimes its easier to buy existing product lines with established brand loyalty than to create your own products and try to build that brand loyalty.
If you’re an owner of a small brand and you’re thinking about selling the company as an exit strategy, be prepared to walk away from it as soon as you can. Most large companies that buy niche players end up screwing up the niche players’ products/marketing. Unless it’s the right acquirer, most likely you would find staying on-board an unpleasant experience.
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Pre-dissolve the dye in an aliquot of water and heat to 70 to 75C … then add the pre-dissolved dye solution to the emulsion and homogenize in. These dyes are quite pH dependent, so be mindful of that.
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Kester Wax K-60P
INCI Name: Polyhydroxystearic Acid
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No problem, John. My bad … I read right through Paraben.
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Indeed, there are preservative products available from Dr. Straetman’s that also have the INCI: Parfum. Naticide was given as an option should @toom decide to use Parfum in his formulation.
No one actually knows the exact composition of Naticide as it is a trade secret of Sinerga’s, but they did confirm to me what I have written.
@Toom: The reason you can tell that Parfum, as listed in the Trevor Sorbie formulation in your very first post on this thread is either Naticide or one of the Dr. Straetman’s antimicrobials is that there is no other preservative listed in that LOI, so this must be the preservative as opposed to a fragrancing ingredient. Parfum can function as a solo preservative.
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Your problem is definitely one of the essential oils. Perhaps one of them is adulterated.
The only way to find out which oil is to do a knock-out experiment to test which of your 4 essential oils is causing the problem.
It is almost definitely not microbial, but why not do a quick check just to be sure. Microbial contamination will not change the color this uniformly, nor that quickly.
Perhaps adding a chelating agent to your formulation might help with this in the future.
I would tell clients that this is your new, improved “Pink” formulation … perhaps there’s a tie-in with Victoria’s Secret somewhere in there.
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“Parfum” is the INCI for p-Anisic Acid or Sodium Anisate. It is primarily a preservative, but a pretty good smelling one.
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The band “The Flaming Lips” might have an issue with that, BobZ
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The “Parfum” in your reference Trevor Sorbie benchmark product is p-Anisic Acid … you can purchase from Singera … tradename: Naticide. It functions as a preservative and has a very pleasant anise fragrance to it.
To aid in the washout, try using Sucragel AOF … an emulsifier that “milks” and turns water-thin when in contact with water.
If you want a conditioning effect and a creamy texture, try BTMS … heat it up with your oils/waxes and mix at high speed. As it cools down it will form a creamy texture, but it does require vigorous mixing … then add the Kaolin.
As noted, add your fragrance elements last. A Sweet Orange essential oil would mesh well with the anise fragrance from the Parfum. Sandalwood would be another nice complimentary fragrance oil. Or, both.