MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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Yes, those are good options. However, I did manage to incorporate 13% oils at 40C in a certified organic base, so I did not use the emulsifier I mentioned above on that project.
However, I have used all of these emulsifiers in other projects for cold-process emulsification and they work quite well. Thickening and getting a “cream” sensorial is more of the challenge with these emulsifiers. But, you can use them either hot process, cold process or mixed hot/cold process.
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If you want to consider it, best you use a cold-process emulsifier combination such as Sucrose Stearate, Hydresia Oleosomes and/or Sucragel … you could develop an emulsion without any heat at all. The issue will be the sensorial of your lotion … it may not be as creamy as you’d like. All three tend to produce “water-thin” emulsions.
Or, use a modified hot/cold process with these same emulsifiers … if you want to get a “creamy” sensorial, thicken up with lots of Cocoa Butter in the “hot” phase.
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I just completed a project where the client did not want to heat certain oils in the formulation … so I dropped the oils in at 40C … a total of 13% oils. It worked and the emulsion was stable.
It really all depends on your emulsification system as to whether or not you’ll be able to successfully integrate the oils into the system at low temperatures.
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Can you provide links to a couple of the commercial products you are referring to as containing Oatmeal and being transparent.
Colloidal Oatmeal, at any appreciable quantity, will not produce a transparent product. Perhaps they are using Oat Beta Glucan? If the post the link or LOI of those products, then it should be apparent.
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Yes, I agree … Greenwashing is not acceptable. No, the Jason Body Wash would not be considered Natural.
And, I do agree that class action lawyers have found another boogey-man to sue … in some cases, the companies being sued created their own problems.
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Using that definition/criteria, then nothing is natural as every ingredient is processed in some way.
Actually, regarding Natural Identical, since the human body selectively metabolizes either the D-isomer or L-isomer of any chemical, but rarely metabolized both isomers, it’s a complete waste of time to try to replicate an exact racemic mixture found in nature. In many cases, you simply don’t have that level of control over the sterochemistry of the reaction and if you produce a racemic mixture, it isn’t worth the expense to isolate one isomer from the mix for a cosmetic ingredient.
Let’s face it … Cosmetic Chemistry is not drug development and does not require that level of precision regarding chirality and purity of molecule.
Most people who approach this from a practical perspective fully understand that “Natural” ingredients are processed in some way according to defined criteria from renewable plant-based resources.
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Actually, if you follow the logic that there is a legal definition of “Synthetic”, then the only other options are “Nature Identical” or “Natural”.
“Nature Identical” is very easy to define … it’s a molecule found in nature that is manufactured synthetically.
So, if an ingredient is not “Synthetic” and not “Nature Identical”, then it must be “Natural”
If there were no legal definition of “Natural” then these Plaintiffs would not have legal standing and the Courts would never even consider these cases.
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@Moby:
Yes, add 3% CG/SA and reduce water to 72%, Lecithin remains the same. That will give you a more stable emulsion than just Lecithin.
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@Moby:
One issue you may want to pay some attention to: Lecithin can have variable HLB values of 4, 7 or 9 … it all depends on the Lecithin you are using … ask your supplier.
Your Oils have an HLB of 11, so you might want to consider adding a high HLB emulsifier to your mix such as Cetearyl Glucoside (HLB 11) or something even higher on the HLB scale, particularly if
the HLB of your Lecithin is 4 or 7. -
While there isn’t a legal definition of “Natural” … there certainly is a legal definition of “Synthetic” or “Not-Natural” …
This really all depends on the ingredients that the Plaintiff is objecting to. You are allowed to include certain defined synthetics in Organic products as process aids … perhaps the Plaintiff does not understand this.
Or, perhaps it’s like the case of Arm & Hammer who got sued for advertising their baking soda underarm deodorant that contained Triclosan as “Natural.”
I suspect this case falls into the latter category where Unilever is throwing some synthetic ingredients into a mostly natural base and they’ll have to change their labelling and advertising as did Arm & Hammer, but I doubt there are any demonstrable physical damages to the Plaintiff.
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If your formulation is forming a gooey paste as you describe when you homogenize … that is typical when homogenizing soaping emulsifiers. But, if it is that gooey/pasty then I think your issue is that you have too much Stearic Acid and Myristic Acid and not enough water.
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The one thing you have not done is provide your formula in any of these posts along with the % (w/w) of each of your ingredients. Without that, it is difficult to offer you more specific advice.
But, yes, you should prepare your water phase and oil phase separately, heat each to 70C, combine the two heated phases and homogenize immediately to form your emulsion.
If you stick with Coconut Oil and you’re happy with the 10% Glycerin, then it sounds like you’re good on cushion/glide. If you switch to Coconut Acid, then increase the Glycerin to 15%.
If your cream is too thick … perhaps you are adding too much Stearic Acid and Myristic Acid and you need to cut back on that some. As I said earlier, w/o knowing your % (w/w) of your ingredients, not possible to advise you on that.
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Don’t let snide comments from a couple of posters deter you from asking questions … just ignore those comments. You’ll receive plenty of helpful advice from the community at-large. This site is intended for formulators at all levels of expertise from beginners to seasoned formulators.
We all learn new things on this site regardless of years of experience.
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One other point … if you’re going to switch from Coconut Oil to Coconut Acid, you might want to increase the glycerin you add in to 15% since your not going to yield any glycerin from the saponification of coconut oil, so you’ll need to compensate for that.
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I also really enjoy working on these old-style Shaving Creams and have one I am going to commercialize that I use religiously, along with a companion after-shave Face Oil … they’re such a delight to use and give you such a great shave.
My formula is about 60% Water Phase to 40% Lipids Phase (Oils + Fatty Acids). Yes, increasing your Glycerin to 10% or so will enhance your cushion and glide. I see no good reason why you are waiting 24 hours to emulsify.
Yes, you do want to leave some of the Stearic & Myristic Acid unsaponified … it will improve the skin sensorial.
As @Baylee mentioned, I also use Castor Oil in my formulation, but I am not producing a cream that really “soaps” … it is a true cream that I supplement with non-foaming surfactant … Heptyl Glucoside.
It sounds like you’re almost there with just a few tweaks.
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@Moby:
Your formula looks just fine, but if you want it to be really moisturizing, you might consider including some Natural Moisturizing Factor ingredients such as Hyaluronic Acid (Super Low Molecular Weight, Sodium Lactate, Sodium PCA and/or Sorbitol. To address sensitive skin issues, a bit of Oat Beta Glucan would be a nice addition.
Yes, you can blend the Lecithin in with a hand mixer or juice blender if that is what you have available.
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Yes, hard to imagine someone actually being damaged by purchasing and using a shampoo.
The broader issue is companies slapping “Natural” on their product labels and in advertising when they know they are also including synthetic ingredients in the product … that’s outright false advertising, consumer fraud, etc. So, companies that do that are creating their own problems … there’s no one else to blame.
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“Does Google (or other search engines) not operate in your part of the world?”
Really? … This is a smartass comment that is not intended to be helpful at all, but sarcastic and demeaning.
No one here needs to answer each and every post … if you think it’s an amateur or someone too lazy to do their own research, then don’t waste your time answering.
The nice thing about ChemistsCorner is that there are very few flames and only a couple of regular posters who post with a condescending attitude on occasion.
So, let’s all be mindful of that … As a scientist, your first question should have been … “please define what volume you mean by “commercial and large scale” so we may help guide you in the right direction.
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That’s correct @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ. I can tell you from experience having tried adding Lactic Acid to a vaginal lubricant formulation … it simply irritates what is very sensitive skin within the vagina. It is not an acceptable ingredient for vaginal lubricant products.
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Normally, depending on the type of Carbopol you are using, the ratio of Carbopol/Neutralizing Base is about 1:1. So, try dropping the TEA down to 0.5%.
Yes, pH 8.0 is way too high for a leave-on product for the face. Once your carbomer gel form, let it sit for a bit, and then add some Citric Acid solution to bring your pH down to the 5.5 to 6.0 range. The stability will be a function of the type/grade of Carbomer you are using.
You might try switching to Lubrizol Ultrez-30 which is designed for lower pH systems.
What you’ll want to do is make one batch without the Fragrance, one batch without Phenoxyethanol and one batch without both Fragrance and Phenoxyethanol … all at the same pH to figure out what is causing the problem … either the pH, the Fragrance or Phenoxyethano, or both the Fragrance and Phenoxyethanol.
I suspect excess TEA is what’s causing your issue.
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I included Lactic Acid in a vaginal lubricant development project and it was ultimately rejected by the client and it caused a slight burning when used. It sounds like a good idea given the vaginal environment, but in practice did not produce acceptable results. Sodium Lactate alone as a moisturizer did perform well.
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Glycerin is not a good choice for a product to be used in the vagina … can promote yeast infections … many women will avoid a lubricant that contains glycerin.
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Are you really going to put CovaFresh in a product designed to be used IN the vagina? I’d re-think that … I mean, what’s the purpose?
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Your problem is that Stearic Acid (both in the EWax and the additional Stearic Acid your adding separately) needs a base to neutralize it to form the emulsion. So, you’ll need to add 0.2% NaOH to your aqueous phase to form the emulsion.
Then, once this emulsion forms, add the Salicylic Acid dissolved in 1,3-Propanediol during cool down.
And, 50% Oil phase is crazy high … you should drop that to 20% max.
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It is not uncommon to get a flushing reaction to Potassium Sorbate for some people … pretty sure that’s your culprit.