MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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Magnesium cream is not easy to make. You must first make your emulsion and let it cool completely to room temperature. It will be very, very thick. Make a separate batch of Magnesium Chloride in water and slowly add the Magnesium water to the cream, in small aliquots, blending in each aliquot before you add more. It is difficult to get a homogeneous cream, but the emulsion should not break.
Adding MgCl at the front end of the formulation virtually guarantees that the emulsion will not form and/or break.
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Your problem is that Cetyl Stearyl Alcohol is not an emulsifier, it’s a thickener and you only need 1% to 2%.
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Why do you not just ask your supplier of the apple cider vinegar you are using what is the registered INCI?
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Try Sensoveil SIL from Chemyunion
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The MgCl is what is bringing the pH down. MgCl in water is also know as Magnesium Oil since it has an oily feel and does add viscosity to water. It has a native pH of 4.0. Yes, the MgCl salt is the same as that used in supplements, so you can give that a try.
As far as including Potassium Cocoate in this concoction, I agree with the other posters that at pH 5.5 it should reverse the saponification of the oils and the concoction would split into two layers.
But, you never know until you try.
Curious … what color is the product and is it homogeneous?
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The preservative is: Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate Hcl Aminat G from Seppic. There is also preservation boosting from the 1,3-propanediol and pentylene glycol … so there are actually 3 preservative ingredients in this formula.
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Ditto on the commentary about making it like a baby shampoo with a pH in the range 7.0 to 7.5. Dog’s skin is much thinner and much more sensitive than human skin … a final pH of 3.5? … Belassi, your dog should bite you if you put this concoction on him! … back to the drawing board on this one.
What you really need is a simple, gentle Glucoside-based shampoo with Ketoconazole (0.5% to 1.0%) and Benzethonium Chloride (0.5%) incorporated. You could also try Miconazole as the anti-fungal.
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There’s a very healthy market for natural dishwashing liquids, particularly for mom’s with newborns … a subset of the New Mom/Baby Market. Glucosides would be your best surfactants to use in this application thickened with Xanthan Gum … you’ll need the CP Kelco xanthan gum that gives a clear solution. And, make sure you use food grade preservatives. It’s a nice niche target market willing to pay a premium. Keep it simple … scents & colorants are not welcome by this market segment.
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From (unfortunate) experience, I can tell you that Leucidal Complete is highly unreliable. I recently developed a suite of products for a client who specified Leucidal Complete. Even using a hurdle approach, we passed PCT on at best, 50% of the products. After that experience, I routinely tell clients who specify Leucidal that should it fail the PCT, I will charge them extra to produce more batches with proper preservation ingredients.
Much more reliable is Dermosoft 1388 combined with Dermosoft PEA (Sodium Levulinate, Sodium Anisate + Phenethyl Alcohol) all from Evonik/Dr. Straetmans.
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You’re getting into a relatively expensive undertaking with a commercial sunscreen … the SPF testing alone will run in the $8,000 to $10,000 range and you would have to manufacture in an OTC-registered facility for OTC drug products. It is not a trivial undertaking to commercialize a sunscreen since it is a highly-regulated product category.
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Why don’t you try a combination of Montanov 68 MB + Glyceryl Stearate as your emulsifier mix + Isoamyl Laurate or Heptyl Undecylenate … that should help eliminate the soaping and keep you all natural.
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Let’s not confuse what product companies say in the marketplace in their marketing pitch as opposed to what are the natural standards. The natural standards are well established and are generally interchangeable … I don’t see major differences between one natural standard and the other. All one needs to do is follow them.
We are all aware that companies embellish on their claims. The only way to stop that would be for the government to restrict the use of the word “Natural” in marketing claims to products that have been certified by one of the standards bodies.
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Microformulation said:I don’t think that there is really a bias against “natural” as much as there is confusion about what “natural” means, but that is an entire thread in and of itself.
What “natural” means has been defined many times over by the Natural Products Association, ISO, ECOCert, NSF and various other organizations. Just because the US FDA or US Federal Government has not defined “natural” does not mean that natural has not been defined … that’s a mischaracterization. It has indeed been defined, just not by a US government entity, but certainly by other credible entities. And, companies such as Arm & Hammer have had to revised their packaging based on lawsuits when they were claiming “natural” when their products also contained synthetic ingredients. So, the US Courts have certainly defined what is “not natural” … hence, they have also defined “natural”. It’s not terribly confusing.
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Daniel3359 said:MarkBroussard said:@Daniel3359:
I’ve given you two options that will meet your needs. As I mentioned, you can purchase Vegecide from Ingredients To Die For (a re-packer) of the the bulk manufacturer of the product, Inolex. If your formula does not contain any water, Vegecide alone will suffice for your preservation requirements.
You will find a fairly strong anti-natural bias from some members of ChemistsCorner. I did enjoy the article on Jessica Iclisoy … thanks for posting it.
Thanks Mark, will try to get more infos on Vegecide, do you think There will be problems for a product to get approved by FDA and in Europe by using Vegecide alone? Or it just depends if it will pass all the tests? Thanks again
That’s why I inquired if your product contained any water or not. If it is completely anhydrous (no water at all), then “Yes” Vegicide alone would probably do the trick, but that can only be definitively determined by testing, which you are going to have to do under any circumstances since sunscreens are regulated by the FDA as OTC drug products.
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I’ve given you two options that will meet your needs. As I mentioned, you can purchase Vegecide from Ingredients To Die For (a re-packer) of the the bulk manufacturer of the product, Inolex. If your formula does not contain any water, Vegecide alone will suffice for your preservation requirements.
You will find a fairly strong anti-natural bias from some members of ChemistsCorner. I did enjoy the article on Jessica Iclisoy … thanks for posting it.
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Coconut Oil, Vitamin E, Colloidal Silver Water, Raw Organic Honey … these are not preservatives and won’t preserve anything. Don’t know where you are getting your information, but it’s incorrect.
Phenethyl Alcohol will be your best bet. Check Linatural Ultra-3 from Lincoln Fine Ingredients or Glyceryl Caprylate (and) Glyceryl Undecylenate (VegeCide from Ingredients To Die For) …
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There are two separate issues people have with under the eye area: Dark circles and puffy bags.
As noted above, the skin under the eye is thinner than the rest of the face and has a very large collection of tiny blood vessels running through it. The dark circles are simply a reflection of blood flowing through lots of vessels under thin skin combined with an orbital shape that does not reflect light as effectively as other areas of the face creating a “shadow” effect. The common approach to this is vasodilators (hence caffeine) to try to enhance blood flow. This approach simply does not work and there is no cosmetic topical product that will work as there is no skin condition to “correct” … it’s completely normal. The best you can do is try to hide it with powders or fillers.
The puffy bags … you can try skin tightening, wrinkle smoothing ingredients such as tripeptides and anti-inflammatories, but again, this is normal with aging. You can also combine these ingredients with skin tightening polymers that make the skin taut upon drying creating the optical illusion of the puffiness disappearing, but that will only last 6 to 8 hours or so.
So, to sum it all up … the best you can do to address this as a cosmetic chemist is to create products that give the temporary optical illusion of being effective. So, yes, there are certain ingredients that can make an eye cream an eye cream, but it does not mean you could not use those same ingredients on all other parts of the face. As @Perry mentioned … the only magic bullet here is Marketing.
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Your problem is that you have 5 ingredients, not 3. Cut out the glycerine and Glycolic extract of plants … that should solve your problem … you will then have 3 ingredients
(1) water (2) lanoline (3) vaseline (4) glycerine (5) glycolic extract of plants
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How old was the PO with the old pricing? Sounds like both parties are at fault here … sending in an aged PO and expecting things to be the same … not a good business practice. And, the CM accepting a PO with outdated pricing not advising of a price change.
I have a feeling we’re not hearing the whole story here … the truth is generally somewhere in the middle.
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Thee Points:
The button says Donate … the voluntary giving of monies for a good cause. Good point that all professional chemists on the site should donate to Perry’s cause.
The site is open to anyone who wants to join. It is quite simple to just ignore threads that you aren’t interested in and comment only on those where you are interested and have something to offer. The purpose is to share and gain knowledge.
If you aren’t absolutely certain of the advice you are giving, do some research to confirm before you answer or don’t answer. It really isn’t helpful to post incorrect information or if you are not absolutely certain, just say so. Again, the purpose is to share and gain knowledge, not speculation.
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Microformulation said:If there was a sub-group on here that was credentialed Chemists where only these members could post, it would be great. I joined this group early on and it was useful for technical advice. Now it is primarily crafters and hobbyists,
@Microformulation, if I recall correctly, Perry (and others) did start a companion site that was for professionals only and had a small annual fee. Perhaps @Perry can provide more information on that site.
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One thing that might be useful is if the professional chemists’ names were in a different colored text as opposed to the same color as hobbyists/homecrafters so one could better gauge how informed/experienced is the poster who is replying to a question. If you have been on here a while, you pretty much know who all the professional chemists are, but if you are a new member that may not be the case and it could help one sift through the responses with a better filter as to the knowledge base of those offering advice or answering questions.
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Dtdang said:After reducing 0.5% from babassu and castor oil. But adding 1% of Shea butter. The grease is reduced and the cream is so nice.
but, I don’t understand why?
anyone can explain? Thanks in advance.Yes, Castor and Babassu oils are slow to absorb into the skin so they tend to linger on the surface creating that greasy feeling. Reduce those oils or eliminate them from the formula and you will notice a reduction in the oily sensorial.
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Good points, Catherine. ChemistsCorner is an essential site for cosmetic chemists and beginners alike.
Speaking of which … BobZ disappeared. I hope he is doing well, but noticed that he no longer posts and he always had useful insights.
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LynnK said:MarkBroussard said:That is all subject to negotiation between you and your client …
No offense, but if you don’t have anything helpful to say, please don’t respond.
Excuse me, but I gave you the correct answer to your question. It is all a function of your negotiations. You can retain an interest in the products with a royalty paid to you or you can negotiate that the IP is owned by your client, you get your development fee and you both go on your way.
So you need to define in your contract who owns the IP to formula. If you retain the IP, then you need to negotiate whether or not a royalty is paid to you.
As I said, it’s all subject to negotiation between you and your client.