MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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Abdulla is correct. PE9010 generally causes less irritation than Na Benzoate or Potassium Sorbate.
But, PE9010 + Sodium Phytate as the only preservation components is weak. A better combination would be PE9010 + Sodium Phytate + Sodium Benzoate to give you better coverage on yeast/mold/fungi.
The reputational issue as it regards Phenoxyethanol is largely driven by retailers who are increasingly putting Phenoxyethanol on the “No” list and won’t carry products that contain Phenoxyethanol as opposed to irritation from Phenoxyethanol. It all depends on what distrubtion channels GeorgeBenson is targeting.
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You can source Phenethyl Alcohol from Green Line Botanicals. To clarify what I was suggesting is: Na Benzoate (0.5%) + Phenethyl Alcohol (0.7%) + Pentylene Glycol (2%) + GLDA (0.2%) … you could also throw in a touch of Caprylyl Glycol (0.3%) for good measure since it is an emulsified product.
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The flushing reaction is more so with Potassium Sorbate than with Sodium Benzoate, although some people can be sensitive to Sodium Benzoate. I have not had any issues with GLDA and cationics.
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You might try: Sodium Benzoate (0.5%) + Potassium Sorbate (0.2%) … it often causes a flushing reaction, you’re a bit on the high side for a leave on product. If you can use Phenoxyethanol, then Phenxoy EHG at 1%. If you’re trying to get to a pH of 4.5, Sodium Phytate is not a good choice for a chelant since it is quite basic. Perhaps GLDA would be a better choice if you want to formulate at relatively low pH. If you cannot use Phenoxyethanol, Phenethyl Alcohol + Pentylene Glycol would be a good compliment.
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I would suggest you run a sample with 5% propanediol if that is your target load. Running samples at a percentage different from what you intend to use in the product doesn’t tell you precisely what you are looking for.
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You’ll have to play around with it, but 60% Ethanol + 35% Water is a good place to start. The other ingredients are likely loaded at 1% or less. The Sodium Caproyl/Lauroyl Lactylate (and) Triethyl Citrate is a deo active blend available from Evonik (Dr. Straetmans).
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The best natural deodorant I have come across in a spray format is Sage deodorant for Weleda … simple formula: Alcohol + Sage Oil. You could boost it with other water-soluble deo actives, but for a natural deodorant, it does a pretty good job.
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You’ll have to do a knock-out experiment. Prep one sample w/o Propanediol and one sample w/o PE9010 and a third sample with neither Propanediol nor PE9010. That will help you understand if the irritation is from one the Propanediol, PE9010 or one of the extracts. If the sample w/o Propanediol and PE9010 is still irritating, then you know one of the extracts is the most likely culprit and you can do a knock-out eliminating each of the extracts to determine which one is causing the problem.
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It is not so much that there is cosmetic grade pectin and food grade pectin … there are different types of pectin that you need to process in different ways … some pectin require calcium to activate gelling, some does not.
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By lowering the pH you are making the MgOH ineffective as a deodorant. The use of of MgOH and/or Sodium Bicarbonate in natural deodorants is to use the high pH of these ingedients to create an environment that is inhospitable to microbial growth.
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There seems to be a misperception that “Clean” policies of retailers implies that preservatives do not need to be used. That is not correct. The Clean policy will prohibit the use of certain preservatives and ingredients if you want to sell through that retailer, but all reputable retailers require documentation validating that you are manufacturing a safe product.
It is actually not that easy for a brand to get a major retailer to stock the brand’s products. The retailers have more companies approaching them than they can possibly deal with, so they select to represent brands and products that they think their client base will purchase. The retailers are another check on the system.
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The industry has a lot of self-regulating features in that manufacturers of products can be sued by individual consumers and/or class action and regulatory enforcement via complaints reporting to the FDA.
In addition, I suspect that there are not quite as many uneducated, uninformed product marketers who are self manufacturing as one might think and those are most likely found on ETSY and similar websites. But, this is an area where some additional regulation could be considered.
Rather, most small companies use contract manufacturers who have an incentive to make sure the products meet safety requirements as they are unlikely to put their own business in jeopardy for the sake of a client’s desire to manufacture an unsafe product.
The one issue I do have regarding regulation is the 1% labelling rule since it provides for lack of fully transparency in labeling products. I don’t see any good reason why all ingredients are not required to be listed in descending order of inclusion in the product.
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You would be better off using Coco Glucoside as your primary at 15% to 20% and Polysorbate 80 at 2% to 3%. Your client is probably following some standard that defines Polysorbate 80 as natural even though it is ethoxylated.
As for thickening it, the Glucosides are very difficult to thicken with anything other than gums. Since they are non-ionic, you won’t get any thicking effect by combining it with a Polysorbate.
Will it work … Yes, if you use Coco Glucoside as your primary surfactant.
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There are actually several versions of Linatural … which one are you referring to?
As opposed to listing just the Tradename, it would be helpful if you listed both the Tradename and the ingredients so people trying to help you don’t have to look up the products you are referring to.
But, generally, you would not want to use any of these preservatives solo, but in combination. For instance, Geogard Ultra (Gluconolactone + Sodium Benzoate) could be used in combination with Linatural Ultra-3 (Phenethyl Alcohol + Pentylene Glycol + Propanediol) and a chelating agent such as GLDA and pH<6.0, preferrably pH = 4.8.
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As long as you keep the temperature below 55C and Allantoin at or below 0.5% you will generally not get recrystallization.
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Water 80.5%
Magnesium Hydroxide 12%
Sepigel 2% (Emulsifier)
Preservative 1% (Phenoxyethanol,Ethylhexylglycerin)
Essential oils 0.5%
I would recommend that you strip your formula down to these components. Increase the Magnesium Hydroxide to 12% … you’re light at 8%. I will assume the essential oils your are using are Sage and perhaps Tea Tree Oil?Your formula is actually a snythetic formula, not at all natural.
It sounds as though your objective is to create a Natural deodorant for sensitive skin in a roll on format. If so, you would need to ditch the Sepigel and PE9010 and find natural-compliant replacements. Finally, there are a few other water-soluble deo actives that you could incorporate to complement the Magnesium Hydroxide.
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A good way to resolve this problem is to charge the client upfront for the MOQ of a superfluous, non-stock, label ingredient … Say the ingredient supplier’s MOQ for an extract of dubious efficacy is 20KG, but you will only need to use 1KG in the production run. Charge the client upfront for the entire 20KG as a separate line item. Usually when you explain the cost/benefit of the inclusion of a particular ingredient, in particular label ingredients, the client having to pay for it upfront usually gives them a different perspective on the investment.
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You should be fine as long as your final product pH is greater than 3.5 and you put the standard Sunburn Alert language on your packaging for products containing AHA’s
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MattTheChemist said:You can’t make this shit up.
Oh, yes you can
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Fung Shui cosmetics
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Minimalist … only use the ingredients that are necessary to achieve the objective, but use ingredients that will deliver functional performance. You can always add-in additional ingredients for marketing purposes if your functional core of the formula is properly developed.
I always find it interesting consumer’s/client’s perception of the performance of a product based on their perception of what ingredients are included in the formula. Often, in evaluating a prototype, a client will find the sample containing ingredient X, more moisturizing, for instance regardless of the amount of ingredient X in the product, or if they just think ingredient X has been added to the product when it hasn’t been. Consumers often infer performance attributes to a product based on what ingredients they think are in the product. In reality, beyond a certain level of base performance, consumer’s can’t tell the difference, they only infer enhanced performance based on the LOI.
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You are mixing up a couple of different things, Esters and Hydrogenated Oils are not one and the same: (1) Esters generally do not require an antioxidant unless there is a component of the chemical structure that contains unsaturated C-C double bonds. The Ester component is an alkylated hydroxyl group that has nothing to do with unsaturated C-C double bonds, the structure is generically C-O-R where R is any alkyl group. (2) Hydrogenated Oils are oils in which the C-C double bond has been “hydrogenated” … the C-C double bonds have been converted to a C-C single bond by the addition of Hydrogen atoms to each carbon of the C-C double bond. The C-C double bond is what makes oils more susceptible to oxidation with benefits from the addition of an antioxidant.
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Could you please clarify:
(1) Do you develop your own branded perfumes and cosmetics or are you a retailer of other branded products?
(2) Are you brick/mortar business, online only business or both brick/mortar and online
The appropriate strategy will depend on the type of business you are operating.
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Sucrose Stearate will give you a water-thin emulsion, but I have found that you generally need to use a co-emulsifier for added stability. You can use something as simple as Glyceryl Stearate at 1.0% + Sucrose Stearate at 4.0%, for instance.
Olivem 1000 is more appropriate for a fluid lotion, but you could try it at 1% combined with Sucrose Stearate at 4.0%.