MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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Yes, Olivem-based creams do tend to give a tight feeling on the face as they tend to form a barrier film, that’s what the “jelly” you are referring to is.
If your cream is “soaping” … white on the skin when you rub it in, cut down the amount of the Olivem 1000 and/or cut down on the Triglycerides, or eliminate the Triglycerides altogether. That should reduce the soaping effect.You’ll have to play around with it a bit at this point to get the sensorial you’re looking for. -
Perhaps it is some other ingredient in your formulation that is causing the irritation. It is not possible to advise you further without knowing your formula.
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To be honest, I no longer use Carbomers in formulations because I find them much more difficult to work with than natural gelling agents like Konjac Root Powder or Sclerotium Gum.But, yes, if you overshoot on the addition of KOH to gel your Carbomer, you can use a citric acid solution as a pH adjuster. Or, you can use an alpha hydroxy acid … glycolic for instance. All depends on your formulation.But, it is best technique to add your KOH very slowly while monitoring your solution pH with a pH meter … when you hit the right point, the Carbomer will gel. At that point, stop adding KOH.
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I generally use the following preservation system:(1) Gluconolactone/Sodium Benzoate (1.25%)(2) Trisodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate (0.3%)(chelating agent) + Citric Acid (0.2%)(Preservative Booster)(3) 1,3-Propanediol 3.0% (Preservative Booster)Add all of the above to your water phase right up front under high shear, then heat to 77C and hold for 20 minutes. That generally ensures the Gluconolactone/sodium benzoate stays in solution.Based on some research that I came across recently, I am going to swap the Trisodium Ethylene … and replace it with Dissolvine GL-47-S (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) … the studies showed a significant enhancement in preservative efficacy using Dissolvine + Citric Acid.Also, Zemea has a nice study showing enhancement of Gluconolactone/Sodium Benzoate with 2% to 6% 1,3-Propanediol.If I’m making a cream, lotion, etc. where crystal clear is not an objective, I also add in Caprylyl Glycol/EHG.Hope that helps.
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There are much simpler solutions to thickening his lotion by simply increasing the level of ingredients that are already in the formulation. And, it would simply the formulation. But, to each his own.
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Sure, http://www.kinetiktech.com for Konjac. They may also have sodium lactate. If not, for small quantities go to ingredientstodiefor.com
Since you seem quite concerned about electrolytes, are you adding a chelating agent? If so, you might want to take a look at Dissolvine from AkzoNobel with a touch of citric acid. I’m just starting to use it, but it seems to have an excellent profile. -
Yes, Anna …
(1) You are using way, way too much Xanthan Gum … 0.2% Xanthan with Olivem at 6% will produce a nice, stable cream.(2) You can reduce the stickiness by either cutting down on the Glycerin or adding about 3% C12,15 Alkyl Benzoate to your emulsion. Cutting down on the Xanthan will also help.(3) Do you have a homogenizer? Perhaps you are not forming a good emulsion if you are just stirring for 5 minutes or so. Also, I would continue mixing throughout your cool down phase at high speed. Much better if you use a homogenizer.Generally, if someone is using too many ingredients, imho, it’s because they do have a clear definition of exactly what they want their product to do, so they just keep throwing additional ingredients in the mix. But, that’s just my opinion. -
In that case, take a look at Lucas-Meyer ECOGEL … mixture of Sclerotium Gum, Pullulan, Xanthan and Lysolecitihin.
You can also take a look at Konjac Root Powder. Much, much easier than using Carbomer, imho, if you require a crystal clear gel.Now, if I could only remember that damned trick I used with Carbomer! But, once I started using non-carbomer gelling agents, I dropped carbomer altogether.Good Luck! -
Also, have you considered using gelling agents other than carbomer? By “stabilizing” … I assume you’re referring to stabilizing your emulsion? What emulsifiers are you using?
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If you are only trying to raise the pH, you might consider Sodium Lactate.
I used to know a really neat technique to gel carbomer and raise pH using an all natural ingredient, thus eliminating the use of TEA. I’ll have to go through my notes to refresh my memory, but there are better alternatives than TEA. -
Do you have Carbomer included as part of this formulation? Or, are you merely trying to adjust the pH with TEA?
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I think the issue is the perception that the Stearic Acid must be saponified to function effectively as a thickener which creates an inherent conflict in your formulation. @Rencelj … this is not the case. I would suggest you use a different rheology modifier as mentioned above or you can even add Xanthan Gum if your lotion is not thick enough. Then you can use either Citric Acid or Sodium Lactate as required as pH adjusters. Or, just add more Cetyl Alcohol.
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I’ve always found it easier to use gelling agents other than Carbomer such as Scleortium Gum, Konjac Root Powder, Carageenan since you can eliminate having to neturalize altogether and the flow characteristics are going to be similar to Carbomer. Also, I don’t understand why you are insisting on saponification of the stearic acd. It all depends on what your intended purpose is.
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Carbopol Ultrez 30 will gel at pH 4.0. If you’re using Stearic Acid as a thickener, just use a different thickening agent. What emulsifiers are you using?
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I do not understand what you mean by “sap stearic acid”?
Apparently you’re making a gel-cream? If that is the case, first make your emulsion (with the Carbomer hydrated in the aqueous phase. As a last step, add just enough KOH to gel the carbomer. Sounds like you are adding way too much KOH. If you’re using Carbomer 940, it will gel at pH 6.0, so just monitor your pH as you’re adding the KOH. -
Yes, that is way too high for a leave-on product. Your pH should be in the 4.5 to 5.5 range. Depending upon your intended use … I’m assuming a moisturizing lotion? … Yes, you can use citric acid or any other AHA’s or combination of AHA’s.
You might also take a look at what ingredient(s) in your formulation drove your pH up so high and see if there are substitutes or lower the amount of those ingredients. -
Benzoyl Peroxide is one of the 4 approved ingredients for treatment of Acne under the Acne Topicals OTC monograph. The others are salicylic acid, sulfur and resourcinol.
The regulations are very specific. If you are using BPO in a product and any of your labeling references your product as a acne treatment, in any way, you are required to register your product as an OTC drug with the FDA, your labeling must be in compliance with that required under the Acne OTC Monograph, your product must be manufactured in an FDA OTC-registered facility and there are very specific protocols for testing your product.You can use these ingredients in a cosmetic product … for instance, salicylic acid can be incorporated as an exfoliant, as a pH adjuster, as part of a preservation system, but if your product is marketed as a cosmetic, you cannot reference acne or acne treatment in any way in your labeling or advertising. You also face the possibility that your product may be considered as both a cosmetic and a drug from a regulatory perspective.Good luck marketing Benzoyl Peroxide as an ingredient in a skin lightening product!The only “loophole” so to speak that I can think of is if you only sell your product to professionals (ie: those skilled in its use … estheticians and dermatologists) then there are exemptions regarding some of the regulations, but manufacturing in a facility that is not OTC-registered is not an option, it just affects your compliance with labeling requirements. -
You can also get certified by the Natural Products Association:
Here’s their list of approved ingredients:The Essence of the NPA Natural Standard
The NPA Natural Standard is based on natural ingredients, safety, responsibility and sustainability.
- Natural Ingredients: A product labeled “natural” should be made up of only, or at least almost only, natural ingredients and be manufactured with appropriate processes to maintain ingredient purity.
- Safety: A product labeled “natural” should avoid any ingredient with a suspected human health risk.
- Responsibility: A product labeled “natural” should use no animal testing in its development.
- Sustainability: A product labeled “natural” should use biodegradable ingredients and the most environmentally sensitive packaging.
Under the Natural Standard for Personal Care Products, allowed ingredients come from or are made from a renewable resource found in nature (flora, fauna, mineral), with absolutely no petroleum compounds.
For each ingredient, the substance must be listed as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the FDA when used in accordance with Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) and contain no residues of heavy metals or other contaminants in excess of tolerances set by the FDA or the EPA or has been reviewed using criteria in this standard. NPA has developed the NPA Illustrative List as a reference document for the NPA Natural Standard and Certification Program.
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Thanks @Belassi. I will look into it.
A bit of interesting information after @MakingSkincare gave me some advice regarding Sodium Phytate.I found several articles in which testing concluded that tetrasodium dicarboxylmethyl glutamate and citric acid outperformed EDTA in boosting preservative performance in the systems that were tested. Good performance plus the benefit of biodegradability. -
Javier:
(1) Are you using SLMW Hyaluronic Acid or “Regular” Hyaluronic Acid? If you are using Regular Hyaluronic Acid at 1%, you will get some thickening of your formulation from the HA alone, so you’re halfway there (assuming you’re trying to end up with a viscous liquid that can be dispensed from a bottle dropper)(2) You can eliminate this problem altogether by using thickeners/gelling agents other than Carbomer 940 that won’t require neturalization, so you can eliminate the Carbomer/TEA from your formulation.(3) Your options are: Xanthan Gum (as you mentioned), Hydroxyethylcellulose (or any other cellulose derivative), Sclerotium Gum, Konjac Root Powder, or a combination of Xanthan/HEC, HEC/Konjac, Xanthan/Sclerotium. Xanthan and Konjac when mixed immediately gels, so you would end up with a gel instead of a serum. Lucas Meyer has a nice combo ECOGEL, that combines Sclerotium, Xanthan, Pullulan and Lysolecithin that I am just playing around with, but it has interesting properties.The ingredients in (3) are going to be much more forgiving to mechanical agitation (stirring or shear) than Carbomer/TEA regarding entrained bubbles.Which leads to the question … What device are you using for mixing … an overhead mixer? spatula? or other stirrer? Whatever you’re using is introducing bubbles into the system if you are mixing at too high of a speed. -
My pleasure Shawn. It may be something as simple as adding Xanthan Gum at 0.2% to stabilize the emulsion using lower percentages of Ritamulse. I use Olivem 1000 and that is exactly what the supplier recommended to add stability to the emulsions.
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Here’s a list of ECOcert approved ingredients:
In addition, the organization COSMOS (COSMetics Organic Standards) http://www.cosmos-standard.org/ provides additional information on labelling, etc.Finally, Whole Foods has published its list of acceptable ingredients for skin care products. This list was developed by Whole Foods and is a guideline to formulating should you desire to have Whole Foods consider selling your products in its stores. There is no certification or accreditation regarding the Whole Foods list as it is established for the company’s own purposes.Whole Foods has a list of ingredients that are acceptable/unacceptable for (1) Body Care and (2) Premium Body Care. Some ingredients are acceptable for Body Care, but not for their Premium Body Care categories. As this list is updated periodically, best you contact Whole Foods directly to get the most recent version as it is not necessarily available on the internet. Below is the link to the Premium Body Care unacceptable list. -
(2) What is “Natural & Organic”?
“Natural” is a precursor requirement to “Organic”. The definition of “Organic” is well-defined by standards established by the USDA National Organics Program and in order for a product to be labelled “Organic” it must meet the standards established by the NOP. A product must first be “Natural” to qualify for certification as “Organic”A product or ingredient can be “Natural”, but not meet the standards for being “Organic”. If your ingredient is “Organic” it will be labelled as such. In order for your product to be labelled “Organic” you have to have it certified “Organic”. If your ingredient or product isNow onto the definition of “Natural & Organic” from a cosmetics perspective:For the natural and organic cosmetic label:A minimum of 95% of all plant-based ingredients in the formula and a minimum of 10% of all ingredients by weight must come from organic farming -
Anna,
For an ingredient for skin care, just get the Sodium Lactate (the sodium salt of lactic acid).Sodium L-Lactate is a specific enantiomer of the molecule that would be used in chemical synthesis where you need a specific orientation of the molecule. It will be much more expensive and it is not necessary to have this specificity for a topical cream.Sodium Lactate is an excellent choice as a pH adjuster because you also get additional skin benefits in moisturization.