MarkBroussard
Forum Replies Created
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She said she just made the 30% L-ascorbic acid lotion today, not that it was stable.Just a comment, but 30% is an absurd amount of L-Ascorbic acid in a lotion. You’re perfectly fine with up to 10% or so. Second point … the CE Ferulic combination works because the Vitamin E and Ferulic + Vitamin C provides some Vit C stability enhancement and produces an 8X improvement over the use of any one ingredient alone.A 30% L-ascorbic acid lotion without Vitamin E and Ferulic might last … maybe a week? … before it starts turning yellow as the Vitamin C oxidizes.@Margreat: Do yourself a favor … don’t make more than a one week supply, otherwise you will be wasting your ingredients. -
Regarding using “leading edge materials” … Have you ever heard the saying “Pioneers wear arrows”?
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Margreat:
You are aware that the Skinceuticals patent is still in effect? So, not a good idea to knock it off directly, although there is a company with a CE Ferulic Serum on the market with identical ingredients, but they are taking a risk.The Laureth-23 is to solubilize the Vitamin E .. you can substitute anything that works and is compatible with your formula.Yep, Liquid Germall should work. -
With Hyaluronic Acid, you’re good with 0.2% to 0.3%, but you can add as much as you like. It’s a pricey ingredient, on the order of $0.50 per gram. There were some nice NIH studies that showed good effects at 0.2%. Note that there are two different molecular weights of Hyaluronic Acid, regular and super low molecular weight. The regular weight will gel or thicken your formulation, the SLMW will not. SLMW will penetrate the SC, the regular weight will sit on the surface of the skin and form a barrier-film, so they have different functional properties.
With Ferulic Acid, 0.5% to 1.0% is just fine. Well proven that Ferulic + Vitamin C + Vitamin E (the Skinceuticals patent/formulation) is very effective for photoaged skin. -
Why don’t you e-mail Irina Tudor … this is her area of expertise.
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Anna:
The culprit is most likely the Glycol Distearate which is dispersible in water, but not soluble in water. That’s probably what is exacerbating the breakouts.You must decide if your cream being white is really that important. Try it again without the Glycol Distearate.You can try jojoba esters, but that will not affect the color of your formulation. -
Certainly, if you know the composition of an ingredient blend, you can purchase the individual components and make your own blend. It won’t be Lamesoft, but it will be 32% CocoGlucoside, 26% Glyceryl Oleate, 36% Water, and 6% Citric Acid and should perform similarly provided that the individual ingredients are chemical identical to those used in Lamesoft.
I do this with some Preservative Blends and oil blends. -
I see. I would not presume that because the pH of the product is above 7.0 that it necessarily negates the effects of ingredients such as Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate or Niacinamide. Unless there is a chemical reactant in the formulation that interacts with these ingredients and chemically modifies them, when applied to the skin, they may well indeed have the intended effect.
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Perhaps I do not understand your point … what testing did you do on the sunscreens?
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Since the sunscreens you were working with were all Zinc Oxide-based, it makes sense that the pH of the final formulation would be above 7.0 since Zinc Oxide becomes quite soluble at pH levels below 7.0 and dissociates. Since the whole point is to have the Zinc Oxide particles sit on the surface of the skin and reflect sunlight …
I can see the addition of Niacinamide and Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate making sense in these sunscreens, but not Salicylic Acid. -
Yes, I use them in my practice. Sonicare devices are not physical abrasives. The mechanism of action is sonic vibration which loosens the comedomes from the hair follicle … no damage is done to the epidermis. WIth physical abrasives, like beads, clays, powders … the effect is like using sandpaper on wood. You induce damage and inflammation … exactly what you don’t want to do with acneic skin.
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Yes, if it was for Rosacea (or acne, for that matter), then Salicylic Acid would make sense. Photosensitivity is not much of an issue with beta-hydroxy acids … that really is an issue with alpha-hydroxy acids and retinoids.
I think Niacinamide is most effective in the pH 5.0 to 6.0 range. So, not seeing much to any effect at pH 6.5+ makes sense. -
So, if I understand correctly, you do not have the formulas and you did not actually measure the pH?
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The issue with acneic skin is that you don’t want to use a physical abrasive on it … beads, scrubs, etc.
Kaoliin and bentonite clays are fine as a masque as they absorb excess sebum and the sulfur is effective against P. Acnes. But, again, my point being that you don’t want to use these ingredients as physical abrasives in an acne cleanser.Chemical exfoliants such as alpha and beta hydroxy acids are just fine, Kaolin and Bentonite as masques are just fine.It’s the terminology … chemical exfoliants versus physical abrasives. -
Why don’t you post the ingredients list of one or two of those sunscreens. I am assuming that the actives are either Zinc Oxide and/or Titanium Dioxide. Titanium Dioxide has a pH of 7.3 to 8.3.
As for Vitamin C, if they are including Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate as the source of Vitamin C, it has the best stability at pH 7.0.Niacinamide has a pH of 6 to 7.5 as a 5% aqueous solution.Salicylic Acid has a pH of 3.5 to 4.0 in solution, but I can’t think why you would add Salicylic Acid to a sunscreen unless you are targeting acneic skin.It all depends on the formulation and the intended function of the ingredient in the formulation. -
Nope.
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Welcome Otherhalf. The answer to your question is … Yes. I use nearly every one of the ingredients you have listed above in my formulations.
Let’s start with your question: “Why include antioxidants and other things in physical sunscreens when on average their pH is too high to have any of these products to do anything to the user?”Why don’t you clarify exactly what your point is in the question, in particular the phrase “when on average their pH is too high to have any of these products …” The pH of what exactly are you referring to … the optimal pH for the antioxidants? Or, are you referring the pH of the final formulation? -
In the case referenced by Zink, the active ingredient in the pH 4.0 facial cleanser was Glycolic Acid which is an exfoliant, so you would expect an improvement as alpha and beta hydroxy acids (Salicylic Acid) help exfoliate dead skin cells and, in the case of Salicylic Acid, penetrates into the hair follicle, dissolves in the sebum, and lubricates the dead skin cells so they do not plug the hair follicle.
The mechanism of green tea extracts is as an antioxidant. I seriously doubt that powdered green tea in a cleanser will contain sufficient levels of ECGC and other polyphenols to have any significant effect on free radicals, particularly when it is in a rinse off product that stays on the skin for 15 to 30 seconds. But, that said, it certainly cannot hurt and if it gives your product the color you’re looking for, fine.Jojoba bead and or clay are not a good idea for acneic skin … about the last thing you want to put on acneic skin is something containing an abrasive. -
I would stick with Polysorbate 80 for mamey oil, if it’s similar to Argan Oil, as you posted. Just recheck your HLB calculations.
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Your formula has approximately 6% oil and 4% Polysorbate 80?! Add it all up and you have more emulsifier than oil … ijs.
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The sticky feel is from the Polysorbate 80, the glycerin and the panthenol … all leave a sticky feel on the skin. Cutting down on the Polysorbate and glycerin will definitely help. You can also up the dimethicone and/or throw in some C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate or ethylhexyl palmitate.
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The most common one is benzoic acid/sodium benzoate with corn-derived alcohol at about 20% in the formulation.I would suggest you go to the supermarket and read the labels of competitive products. Find one or two that have similar attributes to the product you are formulating, buy a bottle, take them home and measure the pH. That will give you an idea of what preservatives your competitors are using and the pH of their formulations.
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After re-reading the article, I really don’t think you have anything to worry about, particularly if you add a chelating agent to your formulation as the author noted that the addition of EDTA inhibited the reaction. And, as Bill_Toge points out, the reaction is “metal catalysed” by either iron or copper. So, add a chelating agent and the potential issue is pretty much resolved.
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It all depends on how much Citric Acid and how much Sodium Benzoate you are using in your formulation? I’ve seen products on the shelf that do include Sodium Benzoate and Ascorbic Acid from well-known companies.
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You really don’t need to know anything about gram+ or gram- bacteria, or fungi (yeasts + molds) other than that they can contaminate your product.What you do need to know is which preservatives are effective against bacteria, which are effective against yeasts and which are effective against molds. Each individual preservative will be effective against either of the microbes or fungi, but generally not against the entire spectrum, which is why you generally use preservative blends to achieve broad spectrum coverage.Once you get it down to 2 or 3 preservative blend options, you will find that you use these same blends time and again as you are confident of their effectiveness and you’re consideration becomes whether they are water soluble or not and do they conflict with any of your ingredients.