[marimaster_3991]

You can use TEA or 10% NaOH (or KOH) solution

[marimaster_3991]

well, they are claiming vitamin C for this product, that’s why it’s been used, for it’s antioxidant properties

[marimaster_3991]

hello, there!

pH around 5,0-5,5 should not cause any instability issue, at least I’ve never had any trouble working with organic filters in this pH range. However, it’s different if you’re working with water-soluble filters, they usually need to be neutralized to avoid recrystallization, so the pH of the final product must be 7,0-7,5

Just make sure you have the right ratio of avobenzone : octocrylene to stabilize avobenzone.

[marimaster_3991]

So is mine! 
Here’s the formula:

water qsp
sodium gluconate 0,15%
polymine bha 1,5%
lactic acid 0,5%
glycerin 2%
btms + cetearyl alcohol 4%
cetearyl alcohol 2,5%
CTAC 2,7%
jojoba oil 2%
coconut oil 3%
shea butter 3%
gms 1%
dimethiconol + dimethicone 3%

the thing is, i used to work with another ctac, pure grade almost, but i had to switch to a blend with ctac + alcohol and the viscosity already decreased a little bit for a batch with 100, 200 g. but now for 5 or 10 kg didn’t get the right visco

[marimaster_3991]

@Trng1122
First I’d try to keep the temperature of both phases (oil and water) at 70-75 °C in the emulsification step, and as was said, move the HEC to water phase, the heating will thicken the water phase and you won’t need TEA. Heat water up to 60 °C, add edta, glycerin and under stirring you can add HEC, 5 to 10 min you’ll have your HEC-gel.

In fact, 10% of propanediol is waaay too much for your formula. I would try 4% or maybe a combination with ethanol (2:2:2 ratio). 

Hope this can help you fix your fomulation

[marimaster_3991]

The combination of w/o emulsifier and o/w emulsifier helps to stabilize emulsion; sometimes you have to use it to reach some specific hlb (if you actually use hlb).

I usually use dehymuls pgph and sorbitan stearate (both w/o emulsifiers) as co-emulsifiers in o/w emulsions. 

[marimaster_3991]

Haha I knew it, actually. I mean, I’m into silicones and synthetics, but when it comes to a client request there’s nothing much to do. 

But… we never know. A colleague told me about cetiol ultimate before, since someone here also mentioned it maybe it’s worth the shot.

Just for the record, the actives are zno and tio2 

[marimaster_3991]

Hmm, interesting, @ggpetrov. That may work, thank you  

[marimaster_3991]

@chemicalmatt thank you! I actually thought of using ceteareth-20, but since it comes with cetearyl alcohol I got insecure about the viscosity it would get. I’m looking for a fluid lotion physical aspect. 

[marimaster_3991]

Hey, there

Chemically speaking, the niacinamide molecule is quite stable and has a great heat tolerance. When it comes to an emulsion, where the heating goes up to 80-85 °C sometimes, the niacinamide can handle well, if it’s not heated for prolonged time. 

Even so I always add NAM or any other actives to the cooling phase and I recommend you to do so. Just add some water in the phase of NAM to solubilize it

[marimaster_3991]

@HAL49 I need it to be anhydrous, that’s why I got so confused, ’cause if i’m using carbomer i’d use some water too.

But I’m considering the possibility of using traces of water. 

[marimaster_3991]

Hi, @Anna_Maria!

You need to be more specific, like what kind of product you are formulating… is it more like a creamy conditioner, or a light lotion, or a spray… the % of btac and ctac depends on how viscous and structured you want the product to be.
 
Check the technical information of these ingredients that the supplier usually send, maybe there’s something there that will guide you. 

But if you’re looking for a light fluid leave on hair products: 1% BTAC and 1.5% CTAC worked for me. 

[marimaster_3991]

@halimzhz I usually use 4:1 ratio, just to guarantee, but as it was said, it really depends on the type and % of oil you are using. 

If it’s a shampoo formulation you can try to solubilize the oil in the surfactants, like cocamide dea or cocamidopropyl betaine… this would save you from using another ingredient. For me this works pretty well with preservatives and fragrances. 

[marimaster_3991]

@MarkBroussard Thank you, I’ll look into them! The though thing is.. I can’t use water, and it can’t have water in the blend. Plus, we need to have at least 90% glycerin in the formula.

-

@HAL49 How does that work for you? Any tips? 

[marimaster_3991]

@evchem2 actually I wanted to formulate a fluid mineral sunscreen but couldn’t stabilize using only one gelling agent. The manager then decided to go for a more creamier formula. Since it is an w/o emulsion i had few options of gelling agents that are nonionic. Tbh I tried only xg yesterday and worked just fine, plus I didn’t feel the pilling effect anymore

The starch and the silica actually gave a more dry touch feel. I’m not a fan of mineral sunscreen because of the white cast it leaves and the greasy feel, but at least using both powders kinds solved part of the problem

[marimaster_3991]

@MarkBroussard, hello! 

I’m sorry, you’re right! This is the formula i’m referring to

water —- qsp

sodium gluconate — 0.15%

magnesium sulfate — 0.5%

propanediol — 2%

hydroxyethylcellulose — 1%

glycerin — 2%

xanthan gum — 0,1%

polyglyceryl-2 dipolyhydroxystearate — 3%

sodium stearoyl glutamate — 0.5%

glyceryl stearate — 2%

caprylic/capric trigl — 5%

c12-15 alkyl benzoate — 7%

cetiol cc — 8%

isopropyl palmitate — 5.5%

polyhydroxystearic acid — 0.8%

antaron v216 — 1%

zinc oxide (coated triethoxycaprylylsilane_ — 13.5%

TiO2 (coated hydrated silica, aluminum hydroxide, hydrogen dimethicone) — 9.5%

preservative (pe + hg) — 0.8%

tocopherol — 0.1%

cyclopentasiloxane — 1.5%

dimethicone — 1%

belsil eg5 — 2%

silica — 0,75%

calcium starch octenylsuccinate — 2.5%

And about your question, I’m adding both powders and homogenizing in the esters before emulsion. I do know it’s easier to handle these filters when they are pre dispersed but I have to work with what is available here  

[marimaster_3991]

Hi, there!

Usually solubilizing in surfactants, specially cocamide dea, will work, or maybe you can use Polysorbate 20 ou peg-40 hydrogenated castor oil (both of them worked for me) as solubilizers. You can try 8:1 ratio, just to guarantee it won’t become turbid.

Regards,

[marimaster_3991]

Hi! That’s a good point. What would be the % range of detergent and max of oils/waxes?