MakingSkincare
Forum Replies Created
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sorry Cherri, I don’t have enough info. Do you have a link to the emulsifier and also what are you looking to make?
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cherri, could you give a link to it as I can’t see the full INCI ?
What are you looking to make? -
Zink - barriers/occlusives help reduce TEWL.
More info and list of ingredients - http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/chemistry-of-skin-trans-epidermal-water.html -
When I read the first two lines of you question, I thought you were referring to hair as it makes sense what you are saying for the hair. I can see BTMS-50 being of use in a conditioner but cationic emulsifiers for the skin have traditionally been viewed as a bit irritating. They are also have a dry, matt feel.
Yes you can add edta to the heated water phase - 0.1-0.2%. However if you are aiming for the natural market you might wish to look at chelators such as Dissolvine GL 47-S and Dermofeel
PA-3. -
adding disodium EDTA will stabilize the foam and bind the metal ions together so you’ll get a bit more lather and it will also help your preservative
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Big Cartel is free for up to 5 products (each product can have a dropdown selection list too so you can extend the options that way). It is limited in functionality however but the shopping carts and template is already set up for you so it’s quick and easy to set up. You don’t need a server as it’s hosted by BC.
Once you are more established, I would recommend Big Commerce - their templates look very professional and it’s easy to set up. -
Yes, I found some articles eg http://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/formulating/function/preservatives/85519567.html?page=2 and presentations which mention this. I then enquired further with some microbiologists here and in my group. One example - see third comment -I then updated my page reviewing preservatives and tips for formulating to reflect my findings - http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/
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Chemical free please and definitely none of that toxic dihydrogen monoxide
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Yes - if the preservative can withstand heat (even if it’s oil soluble), put it in the heated water phase of an emulsion to help guard against partitioning at the oil-water interface.
Some other tips (copied and pasted from http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/):-Add a chelator to help the preservative, lower the water activity, reduce any components that may be nutritive to the bacteria and fungi eg carbohydrates, proteins, organic acids, inorganic salts and vitamins.Mix up your preservatives, as they all have their strengths and weaknesses in what they kill, so a combo can give you a broad spectrum, and keep the overall levels of each down low, which helps with both stability and irritancy.Do put in place a strict GMP protocol to include microbiological testing of raw ingredients and process water, equipment sanitization.Design your packaging so it prevents contamination during use. -
Many of you here know I spend a great deal of my day giving free formulation advice both on my forum, other forums and answering emails. I love to share my passion and help where I can but if people ask for a free recipe, I usually direct them to swiftcraftymonkey or my website (if they are beginners) or places like innovadex, happi etc which will give them starting formulations.It doesn’t help that there are so many unstable/unsafe DIY formulas on the internet and in books.
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Borax doesn’t have a great name in the “natural” sector and a beeswax/borax w/o emulsion tends to be unstable.
Yes there are plenty of emulsifiers with Ecocert status to choose from - my personal favourite is glyceryl stearate (the non SE version) with cetearyl glucoside. -
It could also be in there to help preserve but you’d need a lot (20-25%) but then they’d be issues with stability, ostwalt ripening.
But I agree it’s unnecessary in a conditioner. -
A starting Ecocert preservative blend for an emulsion to try:- sodium benzoate 0.35%, potassium sorbate 0.35%, benzyl alcohol 0.2% together with a chelator. The pH must be brought down to 5 to 5.5.
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Boat propellers lack the ability to produce much shear forces in the liquid, which are necessary to create small particles and therefore stable emulsions. You could compensate by using a high rotational speed to create turbulence, but this comes at the cost of incorporating air to the mix. Saw-tooth disk impellers are better because they can transfer the power to the liquid as shear force with little pumping so perhaps you could try one of those attachments from Indco or IKA. Some pumping action is needed, though, to get everything mixed. Industrial equipment usually has a mixing system and a saw-tooth impeller (or a series of) for making emulsions.
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Here, here. Thanks Perry for making this forum a great place.
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Pemulen TR-1 or TR-2 which Bob mentioned might be the easiest way forward.
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That’s great, did you use a HLB calculator?
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Cetyl alcohol isn’t really an emulsifier but it will help with stability and thickening. For an o/w emulsion, glyceryl stearate (presumably you have the non SE version) is a good low HLB emulsifier and ideally needs pairing up with a high HLB emulsifier (try at a total emulsifier blend of 7%, as 3% is too low). Downloadable HLB calculator here - http://makingskincare.com/hlb-calculator/
What other emulsifiers do you have available to you? -
Yes that’s very true Perry. I normally use the HLB system but I wanted to clearly see what this emulsifier would be like in terms of skin feel etc. In the future I will be pairing this up with another emulsifier.
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Bob Zonis has kindly figured it out - I have a lotion which can’t decide whether its o/w or w/o!!
Looking at the spec sheet that Bob sent me (http://www.finecon.sk/admin/pdf/DS_TEGO_Care_PS_e.pdf), the emulsifier Methyl Glucose Sesquistearate (which can be used as a sole emulsifier without using the HLB system), has very special mixing, processing requirements and depending on how you mix/process it it will turn into either a o/w or a w/o emulsion. I wasn’t aware of these special requirements so I ended up with a lotion which can’t decide if it’s w/o or o/w !To save it, I added (Palm Kernel) Oil Polyglycerol-4 Esters which comes in liquid form so didn’t need heating and it made the full conversion to o/w and looks stable now. -
Joseg - I think you’ll find your answer here - http://www.thedishforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/164626-solvent-for-salicylic-acid/
(You’ll need to join the forum first to read it though but it’s a useful forum for formulation tips). -
Cetyl alcohol will thicken and is also an emulsion stabiliser so yes would help with long term stability. How much to use depends on how thick you would like your emulsion. Try 2% and go from there.
But as I’m not sure what ingredients your hot process emulsion includes it’s hard for me to know if cetyl is suitable so all I can say is try it. Feel free to PM me more details if you like (just so you know, I don’t sell products so I’m not a potential competitor, I teach instead).Do let us know how you get on. -
gfeldman - is this an emulsion? are you able to add something like cetyl alcohol to thicken? It’s really hard to advise without knowing what the product is.
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Ben - “germ soup” - love the phrase!Polymergirl - there are a confusing number of preservatives available - you might find it helpful to look at this review of 27 of them http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/ which details what the preservatives protect against, pH restrictions, compatibilities, %, what phase to add etc.If you need any more help, feel free to PM me.
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Which thickeners have you tried so far? Are you also looking at fatty acids/alcohols? What product is this for?