[luiscuevasii]

@Dilfre @Belassi , your welcome, good to know that my post was usefull for you.

Im still ussing and making large batches of rollon deodorant ussing alum and still working very well and only have one or two issues with irritation or intoleration.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @RobertG , im going to increase the amount of gms and see what happends, i was thinking in adding another wax like cetyl alcohol, or adding silicones to it.

Thanks @MarkBroussard , it is working very well as deodorant.

[luiscuevasii]

Gretings, just tried some formulations for about 1 month in 15 test subjects including myself and i got this results:

Ph 3,5-3,8 doesnt show irritation on the skin ussing it daily for about 1 month

It works well as deodorant, but not as antiperspirant

5% was the minimun concentration of alum and 8% the maximun, there were no substantial diference in the results

the formulation is a traslucent gel that includes xanthan gum, potash alum, polysorbate 80, edta, fragance, glycol stearate, citric acid/sodium hidroxide, and water.

I will apreciate any help with the main problem:

Some of the test subjetcs where complaining about the “sensation of protection” of the deodorant was lasting from 3 hours to 5 hours, i want to know it someone has a tip to raise that sensation, i made a little poll , and the users want to feel a layer of the deodorant on the skin for at least 5-8 hours. Part of the problem could be the abdsortion of the liquid on the shirt and evaporation of the gel.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks again @Belassi, i tested the solubility and its excellent, i will trust in your comments and will buy 4 bags and see what happens in at least 1 month. 

My concern is about the reservative behavior assuming that is a expired benzoate

[luiscuevasii]

thanks @Belassi, the dealer gave me a 2pounds bag, and the benzoate is in granular form, and looks OK, exellent solubility, color and odor.
there arent specialized laboratories in my country and there arent cosmetic labs neither. so i dont have any clue on how to test it besides waiting like 3 months or so and see if works.

The 25kg bags are totally sealed and they arent exposed to light or high humidity, but still the doubt

[luiscuevasii]

I have been ussing nonylphhenols as solubilizer and cosurfactant in cleaning products for home, i have read that they are dangerous for sea animals, but there are nit many information about it safetly in humans, i have seen few “splash” and “furniture deodorizer” ussing it as solubilizer.

Btw i think that 3% is a little high, i have used it between 0.1%-1% as solubilizer, you could try tween’s that are a good sustitute and very cheap.

[luiscuevasii]

I wish i could have aluminium/zirconium chlorohydrates available in my country, im just trying to offer a deodorant with the only raw materials available. I feel bad about myself having to offer products that have been discotinued around the world or were formulated like 20 years ago.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @markbroussard, i will test it at your recommended level, i was thinking in adjusting the ph to 3.5 - 4, to avoid irritaton or skin incompatibility.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @robertg and @chemist77 for your help, im waiting until next week for potassium alum to arrive, i will let you know if it works for me, i will start ussing 1%-2% alum playing with alkali in a aqueus emulsion suitable for roll-on bottles. Any formulation that you could provide would be vere usefull

[luiscuevasii]

There is a very interesting investigation of the evaluation of potassium alum as deodorant, 2% of potassium alum would be a starting point, but i dont have access to laboratories or the time/money to test the product in people to certificate the effectiveness of alum as deodorant, and it would be very expensive to make an investment in raw materials unknowing the results. so i would apreciate any experience or knowledge that anyone can have.

http://www.icpjonline.com/documents/Vol3Issue2/02.pdf

[luiscuevasii]

You could use a yogourt maker machine, they are unexpensive and could be used for more than 1 week, they works at 42-45 celcius.

[luiscuevasii]

Paraffin wax is the cheapest wax on the market, it also helps to get vicosity in the product, we used it to offer a very cheap cream, but you could use stearic acid or carnauba wax instead but they are way more expensive.

[luiscuevasii]

I think that pma has a point, un my country almost all sunscreen says “shake before use” yo avoid that, but assuming that sunscreens are used in pools or beaches and can be in the sand or on a table for arround 4 hours they can easily get 50 ot more degrees, manufactures shoudl use harder waxes and more estable emulsions or maybe a better package

[luiscuevasii]

Greetings

I have been ussing hec ,cmc and xanthan gum in decyl/coco glucósidos shampoo for a while and im not having any troubletroubes
Also im ussing sodium benzoate / potasium sorbate and they worl very well for at least 5montmonths.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @bobzchemist your explanation helps me a lot

We were willing to buy a small reverse osmosis filter and do exactly what you said, but our daily water  consumption its about 500gal Day and there arenot suppliers that have atleast 300g/day filter available in my country, so the only option is to buy one in USA but taking it into my country its kind of dificult.

Right now we are using regular tap water passing through 15,10, 5 microns membrane filter and activated carbon, and holding it for 30min at  70-80 celcius degrees using the jacketed kettle but making 6x 35gal batches of shampoo and 6x 35gal batches of conditioner mostly per day its kind slow and time consuming.

we already have a industrial Gas on-demand heater that  supply 8gal/minute at 70-80°C and its cost reasonable, asuming that in our country he price of a can of Coke is equivalent to 50gal of Butane/propane.

Your answer let me know that we are not doing crazy things

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @perry, i was thinking in leaving it into the tank, i was making 6 x 35gal batchs/day , so 18hours of cooldown for 1000liters i consider would be enought , im making a lot of assumptions because i wasnt planing in buying a tank or even making volumes of batchs like that. 

I have seen that you say that you have been in shampoo factory , so, it is standard to use preheated water?, or they use cold water and a steam kettle ?. 

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @belassi, but having a 260gallon tank its easier that having you cosmetic knowledge.    

Btw i bought it very very cheap, the owner was ussing it as a “water tank for his house”, he just bought a barn and the tank was there . so he doesnt know what he had.    

Do you think that ussing preheated water would work for me?, i mean im ussing the same temperature or maybe more and same water, the diference will be that i cant hold the same temperaure for 30minutes due to heat transfer from the wall of the tank, but i think that 1000L of water will reaming at least 65-70°C for that amount of time, enought to kill some bacterias.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @belassi, its a good answer im going to try MEA at 1.5%, im going to avoid peg150 for awhile.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @mikethair for your suggestion, the webpage is awesome but the prices are kind of expensive, @davidW thank you too, i just asked for quotes and samples of phenoip waiting for ther response.

[luiscuevasii]

@Belassi  im  very interested in your results ussing MEA,  have you achived the desired viscosity using it?, what % did you used,  im having almost the same issue and i have MEA and PEG150 Available from the same dealer, so i want to make some costs calculations.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @david for the material, i was confused , glycols are used to prevent crystalization and avoid freezing in water solutions.

[luiscuevasii]

You could add propylene glycol or glycerine to the water phase to increase the boilling point, or as @ashish said you could simply add more water.

[luiscuevasii]

Thanks @perry and @david, i was just making a random question to know if someone have ever used Lauret3 or 7 for any cosmetic aplication and could give me a tip, im using it right now as o/w or w/o Solubilizer. As i said there arent enought raw materials in my country and i want ot take advantage of it.

@Kot im sorry, im from Venezuela.

[luiscuevasii]

thanks you very much @michellereece  

[luiscuevasii]

I will buy it to you if you were in Venezuela, i just run out of glycerin and is very difficult to find it here…

Its a highly higroscopic and have a lot of usses, you can find here many formulations and references:

https://www.lubrizol.com/websearch.aspx?searchtext=glycerin&bid=32&doctype=2