LincsChemist
Forum Replies Created
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Interesting they mentioned the Technical Document on Cosmetic Claims - I have been advising our clients to avoid “free-from” claims on the basis of this document, but it’s extremely difficult when massive corporations (mentioning no names!) are slinging sulphate-free and paraben-free claims around. Spoke to Trading Standards and they said that:
“Stating that a product is ‘free from’ is not in itself a false claim, nor a denigrating one, and aids consumer choice, provided that it is true. Whilst the Technical Document on Cosmetics Claims sets out best practice, the views expressed in it are not legally binding and it is not a Commission document.”
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There’s at least one grade of “oil-soluble” HA on the market (INCI: PEG-8 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides (and) Water (and) Octyldodeceth-25 (and) Sodium Hyaluronate), but it’s horrendously expensive
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We make a product that’s not dissimilar to this with >25% kaolin and the fragrance remains absolutely fine. Maybe try an antioxidant? BHT or something like that.
Another option is micro contamination, but I’d say you’ve got a fairly robust preservative system. What’s the final pH?
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Well this sounds ominous…
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When you say the fragrance is deteriorating, what do you mean? Is it just getting weaker, losing top notes, or changing substantially? Are you seeing any other changes in the product over time?
I’m guessing that this is some sort of hairstyling clay/paste that needs to be poured hot? What temperature are you adding the fragrance at?
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I’m not an expert on international, but I know in the EU you will require a stability report, challenge test report and a safety assessment written by a competent assessor. You’ll then need to register it on the CPNP - you’ll also need someone (person or company) to act as the “Responsible Person” who is geographically located within the EU.
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Thanks so much for sharing this, it will be very useful.
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The brief is to not use synthetic fragrances, whether it’s listed as Parfum or Fragrance. Thanks though
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@Pharma I’m dying :p :p :p
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If you’re using dimethicone at a significant percentage you could simply use a higher viscosity grade - they go up to 100,000+ cSt
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If your formulation can handle ph 4.5-5 I’d recommend the organic acids as a “natural” preservative system, but as Perry says more detail on the formulation will let us give better answers. Generally speaking as well, preservatives that aren’t at all water soluble won’t perform brilliantly at preserving systems with a lot of water in, like shampoos
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I’ve used an equivalent with the same INCI (Gosulin IL) and didn’t notice any soaping in those emulsions. Are you trying to avoid silicones? If not, nothing beats dimethicone for this purpose.
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Where are you based? In the UK Tinplate (https://www.tinplate.co.uk/) and Tinware Direct (https://tinwaredirect.com/) are both good, they may well do international but I don’t know for sure.
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That looks perfectly reasonable, possibly slightly more SLES than strictly necessary. You might want to play around with the relative SLES:CAPB ratios - more CAPB gives denser foam, whereas more SLES gives lots of loose, open foam.
I wouldn’t bother adding humectants etc, there’s very little point in a rinse-off product
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Is it possible that the additional heat caused a significant amount of your water phase to evaporate? That would explain it being thicker - it’s surprising what a few percent less water can do to the viscosity. It’ll be tricky to gauge the right amount to add back in though
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Methyl Nicotinate gives an intense warming sensation, can be tricky to get hold of though
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It’ll be a constituent part of one of the raw materials they’re using, the (and)s and the repeated ingredients are a dead giveaway that they haven’t put the INCI together properly. A quick search shows that:
“Aqua (and) Bis-Aminopropil Dimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 (and) TEA-Dodecilbenzenesulfonate (and) Cetrimonium Chloride”
is the declared INCI of a material called “Silsoft HC 400” by Momentive Performance Materials, which is sold as a conditioning agent.
As for what the TEA-Dodec…. actually does, it might be a solubiliser of sorts for the other ingredients in that material, or it might be included to aid rinsing.
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I generally find that heating the Ceteareth in the water phase with gentle agitation works better than heating them separately - wouldn’t be able to tell you why this is though! Not sure if this will work with Candelilla included, but maybe worth a try?
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I agree with Perry, it’s hard to beat glycerin - I’ve seen some decent data for Betaine but it was provided by a supplier so it’s to be taken with a pinch of salt. Seems to work quite nicely though and it lowers the tack if you use it in combination with glycerin.
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You could try some other cellulose derivatives - HEC might do the trick. Failing that, one of the carbopol grades should work - think there’s at least one that’s been designed for use in surfactant systems.
I agree with Belassi that there’s nothing in that ingredients list that would thicken a product, unless they have rather misleadingly referred to Carrageenan as “Red Seaweed Extract” , which would be the truth but certainly not the whole truth.
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@Richa
Great, thanks for adding the percentages. pH seems fine. What’s the purpose of the salt in this formulation? As far as I know, decyl glucoside doesn’t salt-thicken. I would also say that 0.1% Potassium Sorbate seems on the low side - I’d consider increasing that to around 0.5%. Other than that, I’d recommend gently warming the mix to 35-40C to encourage the decyl glucoside to fully incorporate. -
If they’re water soluble materials, try weighing out what you need into a larger vessel than necessary and premixing with 2-3 times volume of water - should work with panthenol. For polysorbate-80 & decyl glucoside, I’d suggest gently warming them to lower the viscosity - a water bath is good for this.
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Unless I’m reading it wrong, it also appears to add up to 131%…
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Hi, if you give relative percentages is will be easier for people to see potential issues. What’s the final pH of your product?
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I highly doubt a safety assessor will pass a product with 35% glycolic acid unless you neutralise a significant portion of it with an alkali - but an acid-stable grade of HEC should do the trick.