KingRoland78
Forum Replies Created
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Perfumer’s Apprentice sells aroma chemicals that many people use in their fragrance formulas. Timbersilk or ISO E Super are very good to help balance your formula.
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Is this suppose to be a matte product??
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It’s definitely a challenge when scaling up your formula. I went from filling 5 jars to 10 then 20…now I’m at 40. My main concern was water evaporation. It made a HUGE difference. Even though you calculate your percentages, water loss is still going to happen. Calculate the water loss/gain from your previous good batch. Then work from there.
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@Dtdang when you say tone, is that notes?
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@Spinr adding polysorbate 20 was a game changer for me. It kept my formula liquid long enough to where I didn’t have to rush to pour into final containers before getting solid. I use 11.5% PEG-8 Beeswax, 8% Cetearth 20 and 4% Cera Bellina Wax. These waxes give my formula a firm hold, so before when I didn’t use polysorbate 20, you can see why it would solidify on me.
I also use 13% Kaolin Clay and 3.5% Dead sea clay. GelMaker Style from making cosmetics also helps keep my formula nice and creamy/smooth. I too use a drill and mixer attachment.
If you don’t mind me asking, what drill attachment do you use? I use a stick blender when I add the water phase to the oil phase. I probably mix for about 8min. Or less. Then I get the temp back up to 170-180 degrees F. Once that’s done, I add the clays and a little bit of silica microspheres….that’s when I switch to the drill for mixing. I mix for another 8min. It creates a vortex and the foaming bubbles start to disappear. When it reaches a safe temp I add preservative and fragrance then blast it one last time with drill.
My only issue is after pouring into containets, I leave it in un-covered over night (I leave the jars in my son’s room because he has the coolest room in the house) and I get this firm hard top layer. Almost looks dehydrated. But only the top layer. Underneath the consistency is amazing and smooth.
Sorry for the long response, I just wanted to know your experience with pouring. Do you leave it un-covered overnight? Or do you add a piece of cheesecloth to avoid hard top layer? Or perhaps place in fridge? How long do you wait until you place in fridge and for how long in the fridge?
Thank you!!
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How are you mixing your product? After you pour your final mixture into your jars, do you leave them un-capped overnight? Or do you cover them with cheesecloth?
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@Louiswch
I’ve had experience using essential oils in clay pomades before. Yes, the scent really fades after awhile, especially because of the clays. Clay will absorb essential oils over time. I actually stopped natural-shaming myself lol. I wanted EVERYTHING to be natural and organic, but I soon realized that it just didn’t make sense. Especially if you will be selling your product. There are many companies that use a combination of essential oils, fragrance oils and aroma chemicals. Personally I LOVE using aroma chemicals. It’s the same stuff perfumers use to make cologne. Look up perfumers apprentice online. They have lots of scents to choose from. I suggest you read about it first. -
@ted If you’re looking into making an oil-based clay pomade, you need to use a high amount of clay. That’s if you want a matte finish. Mailroom Barber Co. makes a perfect oil-based matte clay pomade. They use over 50% clay. I know that sounds like a lot, but trust me. I made it and it came out amazing! The only issue is you’ll be using lots of ingredients (especially clay). So the price point will be high. You’re better off making a water-based clay, but it is lots of work to get it just right.
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@bobzchemist @bill_toge @gnomebeard
I also purchased castor jelly from Essential Wholesale & Labs. I use it in an oil-based pomade I make and wondering if I can substitute it with castor wax.
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@justa_pinch @Bill_Toge caping my containers right after pouring really helped that firm top layer!! I actually used cheesecloth so it can breathe a little. Still having issues with final product being kinda frothy with air. Almost looks like i whipped up thick butter.
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@Doreen I use essential oils, tea tree, rosemary and spruce. I’ve made lotion and water based pomades in the past wherr the fragrance dissipates. My question is, does polysorbate 20 or 80 help retain the fragrance lifespan? Do I add the polysorbate in the heated water phase? Or can I add polysorbate to my essential oils, mix and add to the cool down phase of formula? I have both 20 and 80 polysorbate.
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@justa_pinch Arcadian Clay re-formulated their Clay Pomade. They don’t list “Cream-Maker” because it is a brand name, they list the INCI name which is Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol. Many companies call it different names (marketing purposes). It’s also called BTMS-25, but the company called “Making Cosmetics” brands it as CreamMaker® CAT
. Below is the updated ingredient list for Arcadian’s Clay Pomade. The first two ingredients is just water with aloe and eucalyptus extracts. I actually just finished making a copy of this formula. Came out VERY similar. The only issue I have is the mixing. I don’t have the equipment Arcadian has so I can only use a stick blender and my drill. During the mixing I incorporated too much air. At the first scoop, you feel that frothy consistency, but then once I emusify it in my hands it feels amazing. Gonna try again this weekend.Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Eucalyptus Globulus Flower Water, Microcrystalline Wax, Kaolin, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Sea Clay, Glycerin, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearic Acid, Silica, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Tocopherol, Phenoxyethanol, Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Oil, Pinus Nigra (Black Pine) Oil, Citrus Aurantium Bergamia (Bergamot) Fruit Oil, Pogostemon Cablin (Patchouli) Oil, Juniperus Communis (Juniper Berry) Fruit Oil, Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree) Leaf Oil, Picea Mariana (Black Spruce) Oil, Canarium Luzonicum (Elemi) Oil, Cedrus Deodora (Cedarwood) Bark Oil, Melaleuca Leucadendron Viridiflora (Niaouli) Oil, Potassium Sorbate
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Also, when I stir I get air bubbles. Too much air…how do you minimize this? Can I spray with alcohol?
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@natzam44 @justa_pinch upadte: I’m replicating this formula today. I will let you all know how it turns out. Side note: they do not use any beeswax, carnauba wax or any other “hard” wax. Since the clay is at the top, that ingredient in itself provides hold. The microcrystalline wax is petro based and probably adds to the creamy texture and hold. Think about this formula. Water based with clay, petro-based wax, CreamMaker, thickeners stearic acid, cetyl alcohol. Should be Very creamy!!
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@ngarayeva001Can you provide a link for the overhead stirrer? I am at that point where I need to make this perfect! Can’t stop thinking about lol
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@natzam44 Arcadian Clay uses CreamMaker which in my opinion makes the biggest difference in this product. INCI is Behentrimonium methosulfate, cetearyl alcohol. Some companies have it branded as BTMS-25. It gives the product that creamy consistency. Without it you’d be making an entirely different product. It’s also the way they stir their mixture. They don’t use a little cheap hand blender, they use an industrial high shear mixer, which really gives that creamy consistency. You can use a drill and attached a mud mixer to get the same results.
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@ngarayeva001 You’re right. My stick blender is use-less after I add the clay. Once I add the clay, it gets very thick and my stick blender just spins and does nothing. I actually used a mud mixer I got from Home Depot (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Wal-Board-Tools-2-5-in-x-11-in-Power-Joint-Compound-Mixer-81-004/100392767), but I’m still getting the same clumpy results. I think I need a dispersion blade or something that will mix thick viscosity. @Dirtnap1yes I will try to pour at 140 degrees. Should I leave it uncapped and place in fridge for 20min? Or what would be the ideal way to let a clay pomade set? I tend to get a firm top layer when i let it cool at room temp.
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@Dirtnap1I don’t like the consistency. I want it to be creamy, smooth. But it starts to harden when it reaches about 120/130 degrees F. Then I can’t really mix properly.
I think I am getting too much air when I mix. I use a $40 stick blender and I was moving it up and down putting too much air in the beaker. Since my stick blender has that base at the bottom, it restricts the blade from getting all the way to the bottom of my mixture. Wish I could afford an overhead mixer, but I am thinking about taking my stick blender apart and connecting the shaft to my drill. LOL!! I know it sounds funny, but need to improvise.
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LOL…I’ll try.
