ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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Where (in which journal) was the study you mentioned published? Do you have a link?
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You might be going way too far on your salt. That type of micellar arrangement is in fact gel-like but with low foam capacity. Add salt little by little. After every addition, mix and wait few minutes till it develops some viscosity. If needed, keep on adding, mixing and waiting.
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CAPB gives its disctintive viscosity response with anionics, due both to its ionic state, and its amido moiety. As @Abdullah mentioned, check the salt curve, you might need more.
I found curious what you mentioned about CAPB. Did you patch test the ingredient? The problem with CAPB is not the molecule itself, but the content of some “impurities” (mostly amidoamines). Suppliers already sell versions with very low amidoamines, and you can check that info in their technical sheets.
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If you want to change the hue, you can of course add some dye…but you’ll still have some color, just different.
Now, thinking out of the box (and out of any legal framework, hehe), you could try removing the color from your ingredient:
- by oxidizing it with for instance, a drop of sodium hypochlorite, considering that once you add it to the final formula, it’ll be diluted
- by exposing the ingredient to UV or sunlight (best if you can check with an IR that the nothing weird was formed)
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@Joejoe Welcome to the fantasy world of the cosmetic industry. Unfortunately, most of the studies you’ll find are done in vitro, which as you know, are hardly replicated in vivo. These studies are done mostly on individual ingredients (by suppliers), and what companies do is to use those studies to back up their claims. You can check which protocols suppliers use for collagen production (there are tons of these studies), but I warn you those studies canbe biased.
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There are mostly enviro mental issues regarding cyclomethicones, especially D4 and D5. D4 is banned, and in the case of D5, there’s already a restriction, and you cannot use more than 0.1% in rinse-off products: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32018R0035&from=EN.
There’s a project to restrict D5 also in leave-on products, but I believe that’s due to 2025, if I remember correctly. Although, the risk from leave on products is actually very low.
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@fareloz You can check some SDS to have a reference, like this one: https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/bc/bc7d74af-215b-440b-8a2b-2a17f43d1793.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj9zLvenMf9AhVxIbkGHdNuA4UQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2NPAzu42HlLVwDLPSl3hZd
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If you check the CIR for the usual synthetic surfactants which include controlled studies (not anecdotal evidence), you’ll see they are mostly milder than soaps. Also, another drawback for soaps is the formation of calcium and magnesium salts which are detrimental for pipes.
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Hair gets tangled not because of lifted scales, but because we rub hair during the process, especially when trying to dry it with the towel. To prevent that, technique is critical.
Lifting scales make hair prone to scale up due to friction. For that, both lubricants (lile silicones) and cationic molecules (particularly cationic surfactants) are preferred.
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The usual (2-5°C).
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Could you do a knock-out test, removing your CAPB?
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It’s the contribution of all ionic species, but mostly of the inorganic salts. You could check instability by placing a sample in the fridge for at least 1 month.
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When you have charged molecules, increasing ionic strenght of your system (like adding high levels of an inorganic salt) could be a risk for stability over time. Perhaps in your system it could work, but I prefer to reduce the risk as much as possible.
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I wouldn’t use CMI/MIT in a baby product. Plus, Formaldehyde is already banned in cosmetics (formaldehyde donors can still be used). I wouldn’t use that much NaCl either (if you increase CAPB you’d get higher viscosity without using that much salt, and would also make your product milder).
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Two theories from my side: 1) the change of weather made you switch the temperature of your shower (since you’re using a bar, the hotter the environment, the more deposition you’ll have as long as you’re a bit above the bar’s melting point), 2) before it got humid, you didn’t require any special benefit from your bar (conditioning bars don’t perform as good as regular emulsions), but humidity makes hair a bit messy, and that’s when you notice a conditioning bar is not good enough.
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Why did you add Fixate 27? Usually, fragrance fixatives are already added to the fragrance by the supplier. I’d also remove the PEG-40 HCO (it could be actually solubilizing the fragrance, reducing its potency), since your surfactants should be enough to help stabilize the fragrance in your system.
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Polyethylene glycol (depending on the type and at a dose similar to yours) helps thicken. Not sure it’s stable in alkaline conditions though. Could you try removing CMC or HPMC, and adding some Cocamidopropyl betaine? It has a viscosity response when mixed with CDEA.
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The part about shampoo pH and fragrance lasting gave me a headache, hehe. Not sure what Chat(whatever) meant for alkaline and acidic related to a shampoo (you’ll always be above the isoelectric point of hair, especially when in contact with water).
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In a cleansing product, an even bigger waste of money. Urea is more water loving than Glycerin. The story is different if you talk about a leave-on product, like a body cream.
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You can check CIR (cosmetic ingredients review) which are the studies regulatory organizations use to adress the safety of an ingredient used in cosmetics, especifically the part where clinical human evidence is gathered about dermal irritation and sensitization:
- https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/fsoaps072018slr.pdf (this one is for soaps, although there are very few studies here regarding sodium or potassium laurate)
- https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/116_tent_capb.pdf (for comparison, this one is for CAPB)
- https://online.personalcarecouncil.org/ctfa-static/online/lists/cir-pdfs/pr218.pdf (this one is for SLES)
This is the HERA study (https://www.heraproject.com/files/5-hh-04-hera%20fatty%20acid%20salts%20hh%20web%20wd.pdf), which is more related to thei environmental issues related to soaps (among other chemicals), but you can read the part of corrosivness/irritation:
Human Data
Studies in humans on the relative irritancy of free fatty acids (under occlusive patches) have
revealed that the even numbered chain saturated free fatty acids of C8 through C14 chain
lengths are the most irritating (Stillman et al. 1975). With 0.5 M fatty acids, in most males
(total of 10 subjects) there was an erythematous response by the tenth day at the sites of
application of C8 through C12. There was a negligible response to the other fatty acids (C14
through C18). By the eighth day of application of the 1.0 M saturated fatty acids, there was an
erythematous response in all subjects at the sites of C8 through C12. There was a negligible
response to fatty acids C14 through C18 (Stillman et al. 1975).Now, this is related to free fatty acids. When you have soaps, you also have an amount of free base (sodium/potassium hydroxide) that contributes to the overall effect. There’s a very nice chart in the book “Surfactants in cosmetics” (2nd edition, page 522), to confirm @PhilGeis ‘s example regarding tallow soap and Dove bar. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to upload the image, but you can find it in that book. This and other similar studies are shown in different text books (and papers) to show that same difference.
When I mentioned anecdotal evidence, I meant anything that is not a controlled study (preferably using a baseline or placebo), like HRIPT, Draize Test, soap chamber, etc.
Please, don’t get me wrong…I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I have to stand for objective data.
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It depends on your fragrance really. Usually, it’s ok to add it directlt after the surfactants…but if it’s too oily and doesn’t have a good amount of solubilizers on its own, then you can premix it with your glucosides.
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No worries, and good luck!!!!
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Not isoamyl laurate nor coco-caprylate/caprate are natural ingredients. Are you refering to vegetable oils (like soybean or the like)?