ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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It’s your fragrance not being properly solubilized. You either increase your polysorbate (as previously adviced) or increase your alcohol. Since when you write you can’t see the original message, I don’t remember if you’re using ethyl or isopropyl alcohol. Use ethyl alcohol (ethanol) preferably, and increase its level (this will give clarity increasing also fragrance potency and helping on your overall preservation).
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I second @chemicalmatt. Low shear mixing during cooling is very important in these type of elulsions. Just out of curiosity, what’s your final pH?
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They use sodium citrate with citric acid to create a buffering system. As a side benefit, sodium citrate can sequester cations (water softening) and help to build some viscosity. Using it mainly as a water softening agent is not advisable since it forms weak complexes with metal ions comparado to EDTA.
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If your formula has 10% propanediol, that might contribute not to build viscosity. Remove it completely, or keep it at claim level. Also, 2% of fragrance is too high amd can also have impair viscosity. Usualy 0.5-1.0% is enough. Lastly, the nature of your surfactants doesn’t contribute on building viscosity. You could add some anionic surfactant to take advantage of micellar transitions.
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Not sure it’d be enough against gram negative bacteria, but I believe @PhilGeis will have a better opinion.
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You could gradually reduce your emulsifiee, rosehip oil and squalane to a point where you are comfortable with the amount of foam. Also, fix your manufacturing process to also reduce foam.
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That’s a very unbalanced formula. Also, shampoos are not emulsions (you barely have any oli in there to call it O/W). First, remove your extract and your propylene glycol. Specially the last one might not let you thicken your product, and perhaps that’s why you had to add so much thickener (3% is very unusual…you might require something around 0.5%-1%). Replace your oil for a conditioning agent (like Guar HPTC) and use more CAPB to thicken and less CDEA. Also, make sure you have a very robust preservative system.
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If you can, replace your Vegeluron (Gluconic acid and Calcium gluconate are probably buffering your system) for Glycerin. If you can’t, at least reduce Vegeluron amount to the minimum.
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It’s also added to increase viscosity. I used to do that in a liquid dishwasher. You can also check some patents from P&G and they will mention the same.
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Check out this patent, to see howbthey’re doing: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20030223952A1/en
patents.google.com
US20030223952A1 - Shampoo containing a gel network - Google Patents
The compositions of the present invention relate to improved shampoo compositions having from about from about 5 to about 50 weight percent of a detersive surfactant, at least about 0.05 weight percent of a fatty alcohol gel network and at … Continue reading
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I can’t see clearly the issue from the picture. Is it oil droplets that go to the surfce of your product?
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There are no benefits from using esencial oils, hehe. Jones aside, when using fatty alcohol in a shampoo, you do what P&G does, which is making a premix with water, surfactant and fatty alcohol. This gives what it’s called a lamellar gel network. This premix is later cooled and then added to the rest of the product. I advise you to check on some P&G shampoo patents.
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With that formula it’d be weir to see static buildup. Could you remove polyquaternium-10? It attracts water which is the opposite of you want to do with your formula.
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Without knowing what else is in your formula, it’s pretty hard to guess.
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On second thoughts, that resembles a bit coacervate formation, but that usually happens upon dilution since the amount of anionic surfactant solubilizes the coacervate. Did you compare the charge density of both guars?
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To give you a better advice, you need to list your formula ingredients without percentages. Also, what’s the level of Phenoxyethanol you’re using and when and how you’re adding it.
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Guar HPTC is not soluble by its own in water, but only dispersible. It is expected to precipitate over time due to its molecular weight. You need to either suspend it, or solubilize it (like what the excess of SLES does in a shampoo formula).
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That’s a good question. In some tests I made in the past, Cocamidopropyl hydroxysultaine when mixed with SLES and Guar HPTC gave less amount of coacervate when compared to a formula with CAPB under similar conditions. CAPB is like a Toyota Corolla: a cheap oldie that is always reliable.
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I understand then you’re using all your water to disperse your guar HPTC. Are you using high mixing both for the addition (mix for around 20 min after adding it) and for when you add something to lower the pH (also mix for around 20 min at high speed; here the viscosity will increase a lot)?
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I hope I didn’t get it wrong, but I assume you’re adding your fragrance at around 45°C and with low shear. It that’s making you lose some viscosity, you could add some polymeric emulsifier like Sepigel 305 or Rheoluxe 812.
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Also, having some knowledge on chemistry, physiology and colloids can help you narrow it down to only the ingredients that have a real potential to have an effect (which are very few). Those are the ones to test. Real knowledge and having good sources of information (scientific papers, books, etc) is the best anti BS tool.
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If you look back and see where the breakthrough technologies that @Perry44 mentioned came from, it was from big companies with the best scientists and huge research budget. If you don’t have that budget and technical capability, it’s very unlikely you’ll be able to develop those type of technologies. And if you want to find a good mentor, many of the best were mentioned in some previous message. You can also check their scientific publications, work experience and products launched.
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Could you use the 1st method, just using all the water formula to make the guar solution, and adding EDTA to that guar solution (before the citric acid)? Also, I assume you later use some base to increase pH up to 5, right? I’m asking since in your first post you mentioned a pH of 3.8 (or perhaps that was the pH of the guar solution and 5 was the final pH of the whole mixture).
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Here’s the full list of possible endocrine disruptors evaluated by EPA. As you can see, no convincing evidence of endocrine activity for almost all of the chemicals evaluated.
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@mikethair Unfortunately I don’t have much time to go through all of those papers (althoug I’d love to), but just the first one gives you an idea of the terrible quality and huge bias of these articles. To assess the prevalence of endocrine disruptors, they used EPA CompTox Chemistry Dashboard data. I actually checked the site and it’s very cool. In the paper, they mention two of the most present phthalates in cosmetics -according to the paper- as being linked to male reproductive defects. So, I used EPA’s tool and as you can see in the image I attached, they both have very low ER bioactivity (https://www.epa.gov/endocrine-disruption/endocrine-disruptor-screening-program-edsp-estrogen-receptor-bioactivity). Di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate even has a score of 0. You can do this with any of the endocrine disruptors they mentioned in the paper with more or less the same result. You can check the full list of possible endocrine disruptors EPA already evaluated, almost all not having convincing evidence of endocrine activity (except for 3 or 5 I think, that were recommended to be tested again). I’ll attach it in a different post.
