JPS
Forum Replies Created
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USA EST
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This is the ingredient I’m referring to fyi: https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Shea-Butter-Glycerides_p_80.html
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MarkBroussard said:It is unfortunate, but re-packers like MakingCosmetics often modify the INCI to make it a bit different from the ingredient manufacturers that they purchase product from. Presumably, part of the re-packer distribution agreement is that they cannot use the manufacturer’s INCI is the only reason that I can fathom. It’s not all of their products, but some products that have a different INCI from the original product manufacturer’s INCI.
The proper INCI is Shea Butter Glycerides and the manufacturer is Jarchem Innovative Ingredients.
Yes, they work just fine … 3% yields a nice cream. I find them difficult to work with at higher levels as they tend to separate from the water phase.
Hi! Thanks for the helpful response here. I’m looking to try Shea Butter Glycerides as well. It’s good to know that higher % wasn’t stable for you. So with 3%, did you just add that to a complete water phase? I’m looking to plump up a hydrosol recipe. Would adding 3% to the mix turn it into a pumpable or even sprayable cream? Thanks!
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shechemie said:Have you looked at the Dynamic Mini Pro with the pictured attachment. It goes up to 13,000 RPM.
Thanks! I’m looking into this one now with the emulsifier attachment.. need to find a US supplier though: https://fsm-pl.com.au/product/dynamic-dynamix-emulsifier-option/
Yep, also considered the one on Amazon but feeling iffy about it so I sent out a post on that as well.. Let me know if you find out anything else. It seems to be pretty cost effective comparatively.
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ngarayeva001 said:1) Not the best emulsification system
2) Lecithin is utterly difficult to preserve and you are using not broad spectrum weak preservative
3) Leaving aside the preservative is weak, it’s in the cool-down phase. Preservative needs to preserve water, it’s less effective to add a preservative to the cool-down phase for w/o
4) Butters in w/o make it too greasy
5) You don’t have a stabiliser, add electrolytes.Thanks for the great feedback! This is all so good to know! Do you have a simple w/o recipe I can re-create and learn from?
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Agate said:I’m very pleased with my Bamix with its emulsifying attachment. It has a 12’000 RPM and 17’000 RPM setting and can be run for up to 5 minutes at a time. All parts from the motor to the blades are solid metal and known to last for decades (unlike my previous blender which had a plastic connection, which caused it to fail irrepairably). Not the easiest to clean as it can only be hand-washed. Works for batches of 50ml minimum, 100ml would be better. I’m not sure what the upper limit is but I don’t see it doing 350oz. They do have a larger version called the Gastro 350W - Pro-3 if that is important to you.I have my eye on an IKA overhead stirrer as my next upgrade so I can experiment with different stirring attachments, but even used they are quite pricey for my home lab.
Nice! Thanks! Are you referring to this one?: https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/bamix-professional-immersion-blender/
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ngarayeva001 said:@JPS if you have already achieved any results, post your formula. Don’t get me wrong, it’s totally fine to ask for a piece of advice and ask to help to fix your existing but poorly performing formula, but you should at least have a starting point or it’s getting too theoretical. How to make it stable? - it depends on million factors (what oils, what emulsifiers, what stabilisers, what process??). How to make it thicker? it depends on million of other factors.
Or as @Sponge has suggested, just search in this forum, I personally shared two well-performing water in silicones formulas that have not shown any visible signs of separation since July, and just recently provided a super detailed note on w/o stability. Search: foundation, w/o, w/si, water in oil, water in silicone. You can also read this: https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/306/pcc-ask-expert-water-oil-emulsion-unstable-can/Very helpful. I’ll use those keywords to search the forum. This is the formula I’ve been working with:
Ingredients % Oils (Prickly pear, Meadowfoam seed, Jojoba) 20 Butters (Shea, Kokum, Mango) 28 Emulsifier (Glyceryl stearate 5%, Lecithin 1%) 6 Stearic Acid 3 Water Phase (herbal extracts: calendula, gotu kola, green tea, noni) 40 Fragrance (essential oil blend: neroli, rose) 0.7% Preservative (Gluconolactone SB 2%, Potassium Sorbate .3%) 2.3% total 100 -
ngarayeva001 said:If they sweat it means they are unstable. What are you trying to achieve, a thicker formula or a stable formula? It’s possible to make very thick w/o with high internal phase.
Thicker and more stable for sure. What do you mean by “high internal phase”? Thoughts on how to achieve this? Thanks for your help!
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Pharma said:Isoleucine is an essential amino acid, the palmitoyl ester is likely as artificial as dipalmitoyl hydroxyproline. BTW hydroxyproline is also a natural amino acid, just not a proteinogenic one, and makes up a good part of collagen.Personally, I’d go with the former because I like proline… There is, honestly, no experience nor science involved in that decision.What’s with the capryloyl glycine in brackets?
Thanks for the input! The capryloyl glycine is in the brackets b/c Palmitoyl isoleucine is also referred to this sometimes.
What do you like about proline? What’s your experience with using it in skincare formulations? I’m leaning towards Dipalmitoyl hydroxyproline as well since it’s from plant origin (marketing wise at least). I’m considering for an oil/balm.. it seems to be popular for lip products as well: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0026/8317/5001/files/sepilift_dphp_lipstick_data.pdf?3144387592381318648 | https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0026/8317/5001/files/Technical_document_SEPILIFT.pdf?7409108524809900186
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EVchem said:I love the feel of lauryl laurate, it does melt at body temp which is a nice effect but I’ve never tried it in a balm. If you do use it I’m interested in hearing how it plays out.
Nice! I’ll let you know. How have you used lauryl laurate / in what formulations? o/w w/o etc? I’m wanting to try it with just an oil phase..
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EVchem said:We’ve done 17-20 % THD Ascorbate. Stability wise noticed no issues, but in terms of efficacy I don’t think 20% is going to be linearly more powerful. And yeah I only see testing up to 10% which could be related to efficacy maxing out or formula cost getting too high.
Thanks for your feedback. I came across a 70% THD formula and wondering if there’s research to back this up?
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DeedeeUkulele said:JPS said:Good luck with the cleansing balms! Are you wanting the formula to rinse off into a milk as well? That’s something I’d be interested in experimenting with too after I get this balm down
Yep, that’s the plan! Just perfecting the ratios for texture and thickness and I’m good to go. Let me know if you have questions RE: cleansing balms!
Thanks so much! Will do
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Nice, thank you! I was actually looking at this great blogpost re: cera bellina wax. I may try that out for more of an ointment finish: https://www.humblebeeandme.com/quick-guide-cera-bellina-liquid-oil-ratios/
Good luck with the cleansing balms! Are you wanting the formula to rinse off into a milk as well? That’s something I’d be interested in experimenting with too after I get this balm down
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Perry said:
This is a good question. The quick answer is you should add claims ingredients if it will make your consumer more inclined to buy your products. If you don’t know what will make your consumer buy your products, you need to find that out.
Now, the longer answer.
The reality is that having “minimalist, science-based formulas” is not unique. Anyone can make formulas like this. The Ordinary makes products like this & they have storefronts & a big social media footprint. Also, lots of brands already claim they are “science-based” too. These are not unique selling points.
Lots of brands add claims ingredients as a unique selling point. Some brands like Pantene focus on one (Panthenol) while other brands like Aveeno focus on a special blend of ingredients. These companies have big enough advertising budgets that they can “own” the ingredients by becoming identified with them. You probably can’t. And while none of these ingredients affect the formula performance much, it helps them tell a story. And without a story, there’s no compelling reason beyond price to buy your products.
It’s pretty hard to stand out in the cosmetic marketplace. The most recent successes have been achieved by brands that are “personality” driven. People don’t buy Kylie cosmetics because of the ingredients in the products, they buy for the personality behind the product. Sunday Riley, Drunk Elephant, Tata Harper, are all brands that have fine enough working products but are really personality driven. They talk more about what isn’t in their products than what is in them.
In my opinion, you’ll be most successful if you first develop the personality behind your brand. Create a character who people admire & respect. That character should have an ethos & beliefs that consumers can buy into and adapt to their own worldview. Would that character put honey and aloe in the formulas?
You really can’t make your products stand out in terms of performance (unless they’re really bad). You can make them stand out with a unique ingredient or special ingredient blend, or you can make them stand out because they were invented by a personality that the consumer admires.
This is excellent advice. Thank you!
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This is very helpful, thank you!