JOJO91343
Forum Replies Created
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May be if the Color you have contains Dimethyl Hydrazine
https://naturalremedyideas.com/tingling-in-the-face/#6_Exposure_to_chemicals
(Refer to the Section: “Exposure to Chemicals”
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Hello
I am interested. You can e-mail me at : OMELNOOR1@YAHOO.COM -
Hello
I am interested. You may e-mail me at OMELNOOR1@YAHOO.COM -
Actually, several factors could be the reasons for the Haziness / Turbidity when you add Citric Acid. Your formula looks fine. One of the things I noticed is Almost all of your ingredients have the pH range between 4 and 8 which is close enough to your target pH: 5.5. Only Lauryl Glucoside which has a pH range from 11.5 - 12.5 in most of the blends if you dilute the Raw Material to 10%. You may like to make a small lab batch without it and check whether you will, still, get the Hazy/Turbid appearance. Actually, as long as you have caprylyl/capryl glucoside and cocco glucose + glyceryl oleate in the formula, you may not worry about removing Lauryl Glucoside. Then, you may try using Citric Acid 25% instead of Citric Acid 50% in pH adjustment of the Lab Batch which doesn’t have Lauryl Glucoside. These are just my ideas about your issue. I don’t know whether it will work or not. It didn’t happen with me in the past
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I used to make several formulation with Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate as anionic surfactant, I didn’t get it sticky in any of them. They may have other ingredients in the formula which may cause stickiness.
https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1175870.pdf?bs=581&b=224043&st=1&sl=69318385&crit=U29kaXVtIENvY295bCBJc2V0aGlvbmF0ZQ%3d%3d&r=na&ind=personalcare -
Hello
I’m a Cosmetic Chemist for more than fifteen years. Currently, I’m available for new opportunities. My e-mail: OMELNOOR1@YAHOO.COM -
For the sticky feeling, you may try adding Dicaprylyl Ether (1.5 - 2.5%) and Glyceryl Oleate (0.1 - 0.5%) after adding Plantacare 2000 up. I didn’t notice Anionic Surfactant in your formula ingredients. You have Plantacare 2000 up (Non Ionic Surfactant) and Polysorbate 20 (Non Ionic Surfactant), and cocamidopropyl betaine (Amphoteric Surfactant). You may like to try some natural Anionic Surfactant in your formula (for example: Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate. Using anionic Surfactant with the other types of surfactants can reduce the sticky feeling you are talking about because it has better cleansing properties.
https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/PersonalCare/Detail/804/34234/Plantacare-2000-UP
https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/75/31925/Eumulgin-SML-20
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As a Thickener, you may add Carageenan (Viscarin) in 1.5 - 2.5 % (in the water phase) or Cellulose gum in 0.5 - 1% (in the water phase) or Magnesium Aluminum Silicate (Veegum D) in 1-1.5% (in the water phase)
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If you feel it’s excessively foaming, it may be because of the high % of surfactants and the low % of water. Some Manufacturers used to do that if they are using significantly Low Active surfactants. For example using a certain brand of Sodium Lauryl Sulfate or Sodium Laureth Sulfate of 10% or 15% active. So, they prefer to make most of the batch of this Low Active Surfactant (Because it’s cost efficient) and add significantly less water because if they add more water with this low active surfactants, they may not be able to build acceptable viscosity between these surfactants and the other batch ingredients. The other issue is what types of surfactants you are using: Anionic, Amphoteric, and/or Non-ionic. If you’re using excessive amount of the anionic, this may be one of the reasons of excessive foaming. Another issue is what is the reason of 50% Glycerin? Glycerin is usually used as solvent, Moisturizer, Humectant, or emollient. It may not have much to do with cleansing.
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If you, still, feel drying, there are several moisturizing agents in the Raw Material Market. If you prefer Natural Moisturizer, you may use sodium PCA, Hyaluronic Acid, or Squalene. This is if you like to stay away from the moisturizing Oil Blends.
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To make it watery and liquidy, you may need to raise up the Water % up to 90% - 95%. In this way, you can compensate the extra water you add in the formula. You may replace Beeswax by Cetearyl Alcohol which acts as emollient and thickener. You may not increase the total concentrations of emulsifiers than 6%. On the other side, you may decrease the concentration of the rest of the ingredients to keep the % water 90% - 95%. You need good equipment for that. good Mixer and good homogenizer
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If you can provide the INCI Names with the full names of your ingredients, that could be helpful. If you mean Carbopol by CapB, I observed, in your formula, that you are using 12% CapB. I used to make shampoo and shower gels using 0.25 - 0.3% Carbopol and the viscosity was really good. If it’s carbopol, how did you hydrate it? You may sprinkle it with moderate agitation till it’s completely hydrated (no lumps), then, you should neutralize it at the end of the batch with alkaline pH Adjuster (sodium hydroxide, pot. hydroxide, TEA, AMP). In your formula, you used Citric Acid (Acidic pH Adjuster). With Alkaline Adjuster, you can get the best viscosity, you could have from Carbopol, that’s why you kept adding up to 12% Carbopol and you, still, did get the Viscosity you want because you are using Acidic pH Adjuster. If you have to adjust pH of your product to Acidic Range, you may stay away from citric acid because it may break the viscosity of carbopol. This is another reason you kept adding Carbopol, because the more you add Citric to adjust pH, the viscosity made by carbopol decreases. You may try lactic acid, if you want to adjust your batch in the acidic range, but, Lactic Acid may have exfoliating properties. You may not add a lot of it otherwise, it may peel the skin. You may try adding Alkaline Adjuster, first at the end of the batch to build up the viscosity, then, you can add little of Lactic Acid or even smaller amount of Citric Acid Solution in a way so it doesn’t break the viscosity of the batch. I think one of the reasons for stickiness in you formula is the high percentage of Carbopol. There is something, else, you can do to enhance the feel of carbopol which is adding glycerin (may be 1 - 2%) after adjusting the batch with alkaline adjuster then mix it with slow mixing, that may reduce the tackiness and stickiness of the formula. You may try the smallest size of the lab batch, so, you may not lose much of the Raw Materials. These are just my thoughts about your issue.
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I tried cetyl alcohol and cetearyl alcohol together in one formula, I never got any problem. The formula stayed smooth and homogenous for 3 years. Not grainy. No separation either. In that formula, I didn’t add any thickener (no Carbopol, no xanthan gum,..etc). I think it gets grainy, in your case, because you have a really competitive and strong thickener (carbopol) and another thicker (xanthan gum). These thickeners consumes the amount of batch water your have in their hydration and thickening and don’t allow enough free water in the batch to emulsify with oil phase, may be that why you got the grainy appearance when you cool down the batch, but, when it is hot the emulsifiers are already melting, so you may not notice any grainy appearance. You may try to make the batch with cetearyl alcohol and another emulsifier(s) without any thickener because Cetearyl Alcohol is considered emulsifier, stabilizer, and thickener
https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/search?incival=Cetearyl+Alcohol&sug=1&st=1
The technique of emulsification is also important. You may melt the oil phase separately than the water phase. I think you got the emulsification temp. right, then, when you add the oil phase to the water phase, they should be at the same temp. with high shear mixing for 15 - 20 min. then you may need to cool it down very fast with slowing the shear mixing gradually till low mixing shear at room temp. (Disclaimer: This comment represents my personal idea/opinion which may not be suitable or reliable for all manufacturing setting. Different Results may occur based on manufacturing setting and some other factors.) -
I passed by a formula ending with pH 5.0 - 5.5 (still in the Rec.Range). I like the ingredients but it, still, has 10% alcohol. I don’t think it hurts if it comes with more than 75% water or it could be decreased to 5% may be.
https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1189638.pdf?bs=473&b=318090&st=1&r=na&ind=personalcare
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Please, contact me
My User Name in this post: JOJO91343
My e-mail: OMELNOOR1@YAHOO.COM -
Regarding my post on March 19, for OTC which includes API, they should be Pharmaceuticals, therefore, I refer to the FDA Stability Studies for Pharmaceuticals:
https://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/guidances/ucm073369.pdf
But, it’s non - binding recommendation
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If you want to use SCI with Chembetaine, try to avoid using them in the same %, you may use them in the ratio (not the %): SCI:CHEMBETAINE 1:5 which means you may use 4% SCI to 20% Chembetaine.
Try to avoid heating all the surfactants to 75C. I know that SCI may give you hard time to dissolve or partially emulsify if its blend has stearic acid. you may heat it with chembetaine at 50 - 60 till complete dissolution (it may take a while. You need to wait). The slimy appearance and the sediment you noticed in your batch could be due to undissolved SCI. For PQ7 (Polyquaternium 7), try to use it between 2% - 5% and add it to water before adding the rest of the surfactants
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This is one of the formulas I passed by which contains even Stearate (not directly stearic acid). The formulator in this formula has to heat the Stearate (Oil Phase) up to 80C
https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1138916.pdf?bs=1254&b=203494&st=1&sl=59688265&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbc3RlYXJpYyBhY2lkIGZvcm11bGFzXQ%3d%3d&k=stearic|acid|formulas&r=na&ind=personalcare
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Yes, I noticed the rebound effect of cetearyl alcohol
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You can use the homogenizer, if the emulsion is still thin at room temp (at the end of the emulsification). If you can leave it overnight, it may thicken up over night based on the concentration of the the emulsifying agents (including Stearic Acid) you have
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Sorry, you may use 20 min, for mixing on High Shear (Not Homogenization) with water phase, etc..till the end of the post (Re: JOJO91343 AT 10:38pm)
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For Stearic Acid, you may use 20 min. for homogenization with the water phase, as long as the temp dose not drop. When you can cool the emulsion, it should be very fast (preferably bu ice) in the lab. You may switch to medium - low homgenization when the temperature go down to 60c till RT.
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I think the combination tanelise used in March 22 is fine. If you like to use Stearic Acid, you need to have really good heating system and when you add the oil phase (with stearic acid) to the water phase you need to keep the temp. in the same emulsification range for 20-30 min. You may need, also, to use a good homogenizer. You may check your manufacturing settings to know whether they can go up by temp to 75-80 C. because the melting point of stearic acid is approximately 70C
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stearic_acid
So, you need to go above the melting point by 5-10 C to avoid getting surprises in the stability testing -
The most frequently used Natural Preservatives I passed by are the three you already mentioned, in addition to Sodium Benzoate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Zemea Propanediol, Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate, and some others. If you are formulating for EU Standards, watch out for Phenoxyethanol, you may try to add it in less that 1%, some standards overthere said that it’s Skin Irritant in the concentration of 1% or more. Benzyl Alcohol is claimed to be skin irritant also. As perry said, PET is important. Also, when you look for Natural Preservatives from any source, try to focus on the Broad Spectrum, so you don’t get surprises in PET or in any other Microbiological Testing. To avoid irritation claims, you may need to conduct “In Vivo” testing, it has certain rules to be conducted, especially, for gathering the Human Volunteers.