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Sticky/ tacky feel on hands after rinsing off hand wash…
I’ve tried everything under the sun (exaggeration, but it feels like it) to reduce/ get rid of the tacky/ sticky feeling that lingers after rinsing off a hand wash I’m working on. Nothing seems to be working and knock out experiments point to the surfactants. I was wondering….could increasing the level of tetrasodium glutamate diacetate possibly help make the rinsing more effective? Thank you for any insights!
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33 Replies
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Post your formula.
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80% distilled water
12% CAPB
4% plantacare 2000 UP
1% poly20
1% fragrance
.75% optiphen plus
.5% Tetrasodium glutamate diacetate
.01% HEC
Citric acid to adjust pH -
This is very strange actually because I used CAPB and decyl glucoside together and have not noticed any sticky feel. Have you tried excluding other ingredients? Could it be fragrance?
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That formula shared is already cut down. I thought it was strange as well. I’ve varied the levels of ASM also. It’s quite low now and the tacky feeling has improved, but it’s not gone. I thought I had read somewhere that chelating agents can help as rinsing aids, so I was wondering if and increase in the chelator could potentially help. I’m at a loss at the moment.
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@ngarayeva001, the ASM is already quite low on this (in the 5% range) m, but I’m wondering if decreasing it further may help?
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Why the polysorbate? That’s sticky.
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It is. But the frangeande does not seem to be solubilizing effectively without it. And surprisingly, the batch I tried without it was actually stickier. Made no sense to me. Same ASM, no poly, and stickier.
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Fragrance* I can’t phone type. Sorry.
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I agree with Belassi. Polysorbates can be sticky. Also I suspect that the fragrance is a bit high.
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@Belassi, do you think increasing the chelant could improve the skin feel?
@ngarayeva001, I’ve also dropped it down to 0.5%, but the stickiness was still an issue. Actually the last batch where I did no poly, the fragrance load was at 0.5% and that was one of the worst ones I had had in terms of how sticky it was.
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* it being fragrance. Sorry I wasn’t more clear above!
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If you can provide the INCI Names with the full names of your ingredients, that could be helpful. If you mean Carbopol by CapB, I observed, in your formula, that you are using 12% CapB. I used to make shampoo and shower gels using 0.25 - 0.3% Carbopol and the viscosity was really good. If it’s carbopol, how did you hydrate it? You may sprinkle it with moderate agitation till it’s completely hydrated (no lumps), then, you should neutralize it at the end of the batch with alkaline pH Adjuster (sodium hydroxide, pot. hydroxide, TEA, AMP). In your formula, you used Citric Acid (Acidic pH Adjuster). With Alkaline Adjuster, you can get the best viscosity, you could have from Carbopol, that’s why you kept adding up to 12% Carbopol and you, still, did get the Viscosity you want because you are using Acidic pH Adjuster. If you have to adjust pH of your product to Acidic Range, you may stay away from citric acid because it may break the viscosity of carbopol. This is another reason you kept adding Carbopol, because the more you add Citric to adjust pH, the viscosity made by carbopol decreases. You may try lactic acid, if you want to adjust your batch in the acidic range, but, Lactic Acid may have exfoliating properties. You may not add a lot of it otherwise, it may peel the skin. You may try adding Alkaline Adjuster, first at the end of the batch to build up the viscosity, then, you can add little of Lactic Acid or even smaller amount of Citric Acid Solution in a way so it doesn’t break the viscosity of the batch. I think one of the reasons for stickiness in you formula is the high percentage of Carbopol. There is something, else, you can do to enhance the feel of carbopol which is adding glycerin (may be 1 - 2%) after adjusting the batch with alkaline adjuster then mix it with slow mixing, that may reduce the tackiness and stickiness of the formula. You may try the smallest size of the lab batch, so, you may not lose much of the Raw Materials. These are just my thoughts about your issue.
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Sorry for the confusion, @JOJO91343. It’s cocamidopropyl betaine, not Carbopol.
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But thank you for the detailed explanation on Carbopol. I’ll make sure to bookmark this because I know that will be very useful later. So, I do appreciate it!
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Did u knock out HEC and check if that’s the culprit.
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Chemist77 said:Did u knock out HEC and check if that’s the culprit.
I’m going to knock it out next (up working now). But previous batches without it still had the same stickiness.
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I should add, I reworked the surfactant levels a bit, so knock outs are going on now on a re-worked formula.
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I really hope it’s not the HEC though…it’s had a nice impact on the foam.
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Took out the HEC. Still get a tacky feel upon drying even though it is less. Also tried a batch with a lowered fragrance level so less poly was needed (0.3%). Increased chelant to 1% and it definitely improves the feel, but there is still that tacky feeling upon drying.
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This is very strange. I mixed those two surfactants in many products and never experienced stickiness. I don’t know could it be quality of your materials? That’ my last guess..
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@RenKB the HPMC is foam modifier, HEC just thickens the aqueous based solutions. And lastly, @ngarayeva001 might be right if the knock outs ain’t bringing in the change.
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@ngarayeva001, I had actually started wondering the same thing. The two surfactants had come from Essential Wholesale.
@Chemist77, thank you. I’ll check out the HPMC!
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And seriously, @ngarayeva001 , @Chemist77 , @JOJO91343 , and @Belassi , thank you so much for your input and taking the time to help me troubleshoot this. I know you all are busy, so I appreciate your time and expertise.
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HPMC does increase viscosity a bit
albeit IDK if HPMC will be enough to thicken glucosides, you can try to substitute HEC for HPMC to see if it works. -
I had been using HEC, @Gunther. I did notice a difference with it, but I’m not sure yet if it’s contributing to the stickiness. I’m thinking it’s likely not after my last knock out.
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