johnb
Forum Replies Created
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Remember that hydrolysed collagen (isinglass is made from swim bladders of fish - supposedly sturgeon) and gelatine are used in brewing as fining agents.
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nabil, if you take into consideration the costs of manufacture e.g of neutralising the products yourself, mixing of the components, analysis, quality control and other things, the use of a pre-made concentrate where only dilution, addition of perfume and thickening is needed becomes an attractive proposition.
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The lactic acid is a very minor part of the LOI. I don’t think it would make any difference to the performance or to the pH.
Regarding the formulation itself:
How much demand is there for a solid shampoo?
Assuming this is presented as a solid bar (not a powder) what about the slush factor - that is how easily does product soften and disintegrate (turn to slush) when stored in damp conditions such as a soap dish?
If it is a powder, what about the sternutatory effects - sneeze causing effects sodium lauryl sulfate/sodium cocosulfate show this very strongly.
What is disodium sulfosuccinate? I think it should read disodium laureth sulfosuccinate. -
Why don’t we add gelatine to shampoo, then?
What would be your proposed purpose of gelatine in a shampoo (apart from forming a jelly)?
Hydrolysed proteins had already been used in hair products for a very long time. The original “Silvikrin” was a peptide and amino acid mixture made by the hydrolysis of keratin (a protein very closely related to collagen) obtained in the early products from rabbit fur.
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Belassi, please calm down and read through all the replies made here.
Are you confusing sulphonic acid with sulphamic acid as a lime scale remover?
Nabil, if you must neutralise the materials yourself it would be best to do this separately and mix the neutralised products. It will be necessary to titrate to amount of alkali required as, as mentioned before, the starting material are impure.
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You could use castor oil in the formula but I doubt very much that is would affect the secretion of sebum.
Your latest query is very much removed from your original question re syneresis.
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I doubt that Olivem will add anything positive to your formula. Likewise PEG40.
Coco-caprylate and Caprylic / capric triglycerides are quite similar in constitution. Do you need both?
What is the purpose of the salicylic acid? It will react with the sodium lactate and become pretty much inert.
What is the A/D active?
Where is the preservative?
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I cannot see any reason why Olivem (of any designation) or oleic acid has any place in a shampoo.
What is the idea behind this and what other ingredients do you intend using?
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Do you actually need a high shear mixer?
When I was involved in formulating emulsion products, the occasions I required a high shear mixer were few and most often if a high shear mixer was necessary I would reformulate to be able to avoid high shear.
All of this was to offer the larger scale manufacturing a more reliable procedure and avoid remixes or dumping of failed batches.
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Yes, you can do it but I am trying to help you avoid having to handle dangerous chemicals and complex neutralisation procedures.
Although the reactions involved appear to be simple and straightforward, the reality is that you are dealing with materials that are not 100% pure. KOH is normally only 80% concentration. Oleic acid is of very variable constitution depending on its origin and ABSA is of variable purity depending on the residues of acid(s) present and of the chain length distribution of the alkane used in the synthesis of the alkylbenzene.
Far better and easier for the producers of the prime materials (who already have the knowledge and experience required in dealing with their products) to carry out the rough work for you.
I am all for an easy life and if I can get my ABSA already prepared as the potassium salt and my oleic acid as potassium oleate, I am all for that - particularly if, as you say, only small amounts are involved.
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Why are you using ABS free acid rather than the much safer (and easier to store) ready neutralised material? Likewise with the oleic acid. Even though oleic acid is more or less harmless, KOH certainly isn’t.
By using preneutralised ingredients it will save you from some possibly complex calculations.
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There shouldn’t be a problem in replacing one preservative with another but ensure that you test for its effectiveness after doing this.
Another thing you ought to bear in mind is that formulations provided by ingredient suppliers are offered to showcase their products and they may not be the optimum in their performance or economics.
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Probably the best way to cause an emulsion to split and separate is to mix it with alcohol.
Use a perfume compount from a reliable supplier rather than play around with oddments from your dressing table as the results are almost certain to be disappointing.
In regard to using vanilla pods as a perfume, as you have found already, this will fail. Vanilla-like perfumes are probably the most difficult to incorporate into anything other than a simple alcohol based product. Vanillin, the “active” and essential component of the vanilla fragrance accord readily discolours forming unpleasant brown shades and a loss of odour.
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You may find that ferulic acid is soluble in a niacinamide solution. Try altering your process to include the two ingredients together to dissolve in a small amount of water before adding anything else.
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also makes a good corrosion inhibitor on metal surfaces.
Very true!
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I’ve worked in a plant where oleum sulfonations were carried out. Not something I would carry out without full protective gear or without safety assistance!
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Bill, I was thinking more of the low concentration in a beverage product more than a strong dental product.
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As I have intimated earlier, gelatin(e) is hydrolysed collagen.
I can see no point in paying $$$$$ or £££££ or €€€€€ for these products when you can go into the local sweetshop/candystore or foodstore and buy almost infinite amounts of gelatin(e) containing foods at comparatively very low prices.
You could also apply it to the face as a temporary antiwrinkle treatment (see another recent thread).
Cynical? Moi?
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What is sulphonic acid? The term requires an identifier e.g alkylbenzene sulphonic acid.
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I have quoted and discussed the Kligman patent on this elsewhere on the group - there have been previous posts on this matter. What seems to be missing again in the present discussion is the presence of film formers in the product. The Kligman patent claims ” - - sodium silicate, human serum albumin and an aqueous carrier therefor.” It is my view that the highlighted (my highlighting) ingredient is the one that is all important as this, like some other film forming proteins like gelatin and egg albumen, dry on the skin causing tightening. This use of egg white is an old theatrical trick for producing an oriental appearance to the face by applying the egg white to the sides of the face near to the eye and allowing to dry.
The discussion re. sodium silicate is somewhat misleading. The material is available in numerous grades. Some are alkaline (metasilicate) some very alkaline (orthosilicate) and some fairly neutral. This last is called waterglass and is used as a heatproof adhesive as well as for preserving eggs. I believe that waterglass is the grade intended by Kligman (all of this is elucidated in the patent).
See https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/comment/16325/#Comment_16325
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People object to the odour of IPA in more than extremely small amounts.
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This is an ancient thread. I think the questioner has now gone away.
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Resin in hand sanitizers?
These products are made as cheap as possible to be able to get a position on a VERY oversubscribed product platform.
OK, it may be feasible (just) to aim at a “luxury” consumer market but this is tiny compared with the marketplace available in healthcare - where there seems to be a queue of salesmen at their doors touting their “better” hand sanitizer.
There is a similar situation with gel lubricants - large numbers of sales personnel (possibly the same ones trying to sell hand sanitizers) offering gel lubricants for various scanner uses - and a lot of the products (I have on good authority*) are very poor quality.
*One of the “authorities” is myself having been on the receiving end of one of these non-lubricating lubricants during an echo cardiogram investigation a few months ago. The technician began the procedure a second time using and established product - KY Jelly.
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I am unable to give examples of cooling materials as I have no idea as to the detail of the product you wish to make. Look at http://leffingwell.com/cooler_than_menthol.htm for a detailed account of physiological cooling agents. Your flavour labs should be fully cogniscent with the materials available
Regarding the sugar alcohols (erythritol/xylitol/sorbitol/etc). These materials do have a negative heat of solution and will physically reduce the temperature of water during dissolution - this is taken advantage of with such things as sugar free candies where the cooling effect is used as a marketing ploy. Whether this temperature reduction would be noticeable in the large dilution factor involved in mixing into a beverage remains to be seen. There are a couple of things to be aware of using sugar alcohols:
1. the cooling is very short lived and only occurs during the dissolution. That is to say that it is pointless marketing as a predissolved (liquid) product.
2. Sugar alcohols have a laxative effect. This is more pronounced in some than others but it can give some very unwanted side effects. -
SARA was a very “in” phrase in the US when I was active in the industry as it dealt with TOSCA (another acronym) which was getting every legislative person’s knickers in a twist at the time.
SARA (or rather its meaning) always struck me as a very strange term for what it represented.
TOSCA = TOxic Substances Control Act now more common without the “O” thus TSCA but this was when I was working in France where they are more poetic!