johnb
Forum Replies Created
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Not sure, Brand new here. Is there a more recent thread, and a way I
might find it, about the solubility of salicylic acid in alcohol and
propylene glycol with water and witch hazel then added? Don’t want to
offend or break rules.You can search for old threads via the search facility at top, right of the page.
To be more specific re. your question, as the variables in mixed (3 or 4) solvent systems are so wide the best, perhaps only, way to determine salicylic acid solubility is to experiment yourself.
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I am in the UK and many years ago (about 40) I worked as a development chemist for the company that made shaving cream for Taylors (as well as several other traditional English “Gentlemens” shaving requisites suppliers e.g Truefitt & Hill, Trumpers and more).
The almond product wasn’t around then although in those days the tendency was for the client to purchase unperfumed shaving cream base then to perfume it extemporaneously for each customer - sometimes with perfumes exclusively compounded for that individual.
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Well, there is nothing that jumps out me as being responsible for the adverse effects you are experiencing.
There is the point about the preservatives but this has been covered.
The only other thing I can envisage at the moment is the oat kernel oil - of which I know very little except (I have just found out) is produced by two methods: either extracted with ethanol or expressed from oat kernels. The alcohol extracted material is likely to contain materials not often found in expressed oils so that may be a possible culprit.
Do you know how your oil is produced? Either way, it may be worthwhile carrying out a test.
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We are still not privy to your formulation.
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The LOI you have given is not complete and, even though benzaldehyde may have been one of the ingredients in the products when it was manufactured, it is very doubful that there is any remaining now. If you doubt what I state, try using the material in a soap based shave cream to test for yourself.
The fragrance used by Taylor of Old Bond Street is much more complex than the LOI suggests. There is no fragrance declaration in the LOI nor is there magnesium nitrate/chloride (which always accompanies isothiazolone preservatives). This alone makes me suspicious about the bona fides of the LOI offered.
The description for the fragrance, as you point out says marzipan, vanilla and maple syrup. Well, there is no vanilla originating from vanillin (discoloration), there is no maple syrup present nor is there any precious wood, fruit or nuts. It does, however reveal cinnamon leaf oil (declared for legal reasons in Europe due to the eugenol content).
It is possible to obtain benzaldehyde free almond fragrances just by using non-aldehyde components, a couple of which I pointed out in my previous post here. There are other materials that will do a similar job.
I strongly recommend you to use the services of a perfume house where you can explain your requirements and who will formulate accordingly.
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24 hours after I smeared both sides of the dipslide with a cotton bud soaked with the shampoo
Was the cotton bud sterile?
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I have had a quick look at the pdf and I feel I must point out the article is old and some of the formulations and recommendations will not be acceptable in modern practice. For example, thiomersal (thimerosal), phenylmercuric salts, borates and lots of other materials are suggested as ingredients for cosmetic products.
If anyone, especially a beginner, is thinking of proceeding along the lines of the recommendations in this article, check VERY carefully about the current acceptability of each component.
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The problem with benzaldehyde as a perfume component is that it is extremely unstable.
It undergoes the Cannizzaro reaction under even very mild conditions (small deviations in acidity/alkalinity) forming benzyl alcohol and benzoic acid - both of which are effectively odourless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannizzaro_reaction
Although the Cannizzaro reaction is usually claimed to require strongly alkaline conditions, that is not always necessary and the presence of a phase transfer catalyst (a detergent or soap in your case) the reaction proceeds apace.
Benzaldehyde is also subject to atmospheric oxidation when it can oxidise with great ease to benzoic acid/benzoate.
Benzaldehyde can be stabilised to some extent as a solution in ethanol or a fixed oil. In the almond nut the presence of hydrogen cyanide is an excellent stabiliser but, of course, the toxicity of the HCN renders this approach unsuitable most end uses.
It is possible to reproduce the bitter almond note without benzaldehyde using, possibly, the dimethyl and/or diethyl acetals of benzaldehyde together with other components to “round off” the almond note. You do need the services of a perfumer to get this right and even then, there is no guarantee that it is possible in your product type (ever seen an almond soap?).
Never be tempted to use nitrobenzene (oil of mirbane) as a benzaldehyde substitute. It is highly toxic.
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If you have all this knowledge and experience why are you coming here asking such basic questions?
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With so little information it is impossible to make a reasoned comment.
As a guess, I would suggest that the perfume contains vanillin which is discolouring.
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Shelf life information must always be interpreted with considerable caution.
Often, expiry dates are applied to items purely on a whim without any consideration of what may be considered logical.
I have seen bags of coal with “best before” dates of 2 years ahead and supermarket packs of salt with similar markings. Don’t the packers realise that these items have been around for gazillions of years and that another 2 or three will make not a jot of difference to their constitution or safety?
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This could be an osmotic effect where the (relatively) high concentration of surfactant is drawing moisture from the skin. I doubt it is irritation in this instance as the sensation would be longer lasting.
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Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer is a thickening agent which can act as an emulsion stabiliser. It is not an emulsifier.
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Remember that formulations offered by raw materials manufacturers are purely to promote the company’s products and do not always (in fact very rarely) give access to a commercially viable formula.
Can I suggest that, rather than blindly following a formula given in a sales leaflet, you carry our some experimental work to see for yourself the effect of varying the amounts of the different components that you wish to use.
That is to learn about what you are doing rather than relying on the efforts of others who have different motives than yourself (selling cosmetics raw materials).
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There are a number of alternative glycols around now which weren’t available to Poucher. These may provide the different properties you seek.
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Xanthan (note spelling) is not a particularly good thickener. Its attributes lie mainly elsewhere as a stabiliser/suspending agent.
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@pradeep
You have also misunderstood the object of the post. It was merely a list of possible materials for the specified end use. It is not a LOI for a product. -
I very much doubt that this is a complete declaration.
Where is the emulsifier? The glycerol stearate is insufficient, even with the tiny amount of stearic acid/NaOH and the polymer.
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Coconut oil and latex are a definite no-no.
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Ah! this has been going on so long, I forgot the orginal brief!
Referring to the lubricant formula, does it contain 42% of PG? or is that a typo?
If 42% is correct then it may be better to use Klucel as the viscosifier in preference to Natrosol. Klucel has much better solubility in polar organic solvents (alcohols, glycols) than has Natrosol.
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When I’m ready to find a chemist to help me navigate the process of
finalizing a formula, I’ll be sure to bring this up with them (Hopefully
they would see it anyway).Do you have a “tame” chemist/formulator waiting?
One thing I used to hate in consultancy work was people (both tyros and experienced formulators) coming to me requesting that I “finalize” their formula into something resembling saleable product.
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You mention coconut - is this coconut oil or coconut fatty acid? Either way, it may be advantagous to increase this to about 12%.
For information, the pH ought to be about 9.
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How are you defining “natural” here? Is it a material(s) derived from a natural source or one that occurs in nature but which is a synthetic version? It could make a difference of many 10’s of currency units ($, £, €, whatever) whether you choose natural or nature identical.
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Cooling agents like Menthyl Lactate, Menthol and to a lesser extent
Peppermint Oil evaporate rapidly “tricking” the nerve endings into
feeling an enhanced sensation.That is an incorrect explanation of how these cooling agents function.
The cooling activity mechanism is quite well explained in http://www.leffingwell.com/cooler_than_menthol.htm
I’m becoming very confused by this thread. Are we looking at lubricants or sexual stimulants? There seems to be two distinct subjects which are being conflated.
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It is necessary to use a mixing system that does not introduce air into the product - as already noted by Perry.
As the formula for these pomades is almost all surfactant, removing.foam will be almost impossible without extensive work.