johnb
Forum Replies Created
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The link works for me but the full article is behind a paywall.
Never forget that Google is your friend.
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Zink, be aware that panthenol is not the inert, benign material that is is often assumed to be. If you look more into its constitution you will see that it is a derivative of propanolamine: N-Pantoylpropanolamine
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Gazillions of stearate based stick products are produced without problems.
Perhaps it’s time to re-addressthe whole thing and stop trying to patch up the work of someone else.
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I ought to point out that the vanillin/caffeine complex is the subject of an obscure Japanese patent. There has been no attempt to expand the area of coverage so the patent only applies to Japan.
Niacinamide/caffeine complexes were subject to patents but these are expired.
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There is zero possibility of microorganism growth in IPA solutions above 10% concentration or in the absence of water.
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Almost certainly the DEANOL tartrate decmposing under the alkaline conditions formed by the sodium silicate. DEANOL free base has a very strong ammoniacal odour. I very much doubt is has anything to do with the xanthan (note spelling) gum.
I’m assuming the product under discussion is a (temporary) wrinkle remover. If it is, be very careful in formulating to avoid adverse reactions from the silicate - which is available in a number of grades, some of which are VERY alkaline (sodium metasilicate and, more so, sodium orthosilicate). A fairly pH neutral grade sold as “water glass” is nearer to the grade needed although this is not stated in the Kligmann Patent for this product.
Personally, I would avoid this product.
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Is that 0.5% sodium benzoate figure absolute or does it apply to its use as a preservative?
Either way, do you really need 5% caffeine in your product?
Caffeine forms a water soluble complex with vanillin (1:1 equimolecular) and with niacinamide (1:1). You might want to consider those.
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Have you seen this
https://chemistscorner.com/basic-cosmetic-formulations-deodorant-sticks/
??
Might give an insight to your dilemma - and it’s here all the time.
Also remember that Google is your friend. Do a search using deodorant stick formulation as the keywords.
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Belassi - the products may well have looked very good but did you investigate anything about their formulation? All may not have been what it seemed.
Did you enquire as to the origin of the fibres in the brushes? I have heard all sorts on unpleasant stories about that.
Have you enquired about the working conditions of the workers involved in manufacture?
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As the product is designed to be used in a gym there ought not to be any stoves in the vicinity and if you’re worried about smoking (tobacco or other “substances”) then that doesn’t fit with attending a gym either. -
@Perry I wasn’t intimating that the big shave companies would join the beard bandwagon but that they may well begin a big promotion of the beard free chin or face before very long.
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fletland - I think this problem has been dealt with (check the dates).
I don’t think the level of ethanol (0.15%) is of importance in this.
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You ask in your header if the flammability of ethanol is a problem in body sprays. Your comparative of the flammability of creams is invalid as the circumstances between the two situations are completely different.
The problem in using silicones, and dilute alcohol (with or without IPA) or isododecane is the solubility - or otherwise - of other components, particularly fragrance, in the spray. I think you will find that isododecane quite flammable as well.
The best thing to do is check marketed sprays already on store
shelves and see what is the most commonly used carrier in this type of
product. In most markets it will be alcohol (ethanol). -
This deliberate misinterpretation by far eastern manufacturers extends much further than cosmetic products.
A prticularly obscure one I was involved in was the presence of lead in candles. The lead was found on analysis of wax residues after burning. The manufacturers denied that lead was used in their product so it was left to me to find the source. I did find it by physically dismantling the candles and seeing that there was a metal wire running the length of the wick. This wire was made from a lead alloy. The idea was that the wire stiffened the wick so that the candle flame was controlled in height and volume. As the candle burned, more of the wick became exposed to the flame resulting in an increase in temperature of that part and fusion of the metal insert thus allowing the burning wick to maintain a constant length.
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If your product range is (or is potentially) devoted entirely to beards it would be wise to bear in mind that beard wearing is one of the current fashion statements which is well into its lifespan. I can well imagine that in a fairly short time the current vogue for a beard will be replaced by a clean shaven look - and where will your products be then?
I am somewhat surprised that the “big shaving” companies have not reacted more actively but perhaps they are saving up for a big onslaught into the market again when the time is deemed a bit more suitable. I don’t think it will be very long.
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Do these products originate in China?
After some experience several years ago with cosmetics manufacturers in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong I came to realise that they have their own interpretation of INCI and of western labelling requirements - most of it rubbish.
Try as I did, I could not get these suppliers to comply with my requests for correct LOIs and in the end had to ditch them and move to more local manufacturers (at considerable cost).
A prize excuse that these Chinois companies made was that their products were made according to a “secret Chinese patent”. This is totally stupid and demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the word “patent”.
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I am corrected - thank you. I obtained my information from a general data sheet For Ethocel rather than the one devoted to the Premium 100 grade.
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That is not a “legal” INCI declaration. Where is this product sold?
There appears to be too small a quantity of “sorbitol esters” even if that includes sorbitol ester ethoxylates (polysorbates) and there is no other emulsfier declared, as you indicate.
The caprylyl glycol is most likely included as a preservative but it is not very effective on its own.
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I agree that Thixin R (or other brand of hydrogenated castor oil) should work.
I doubt that Ethocel 100 would be suitable for this purpose as it is not soluble in aliphatic oily materials.
My previous reply here was a specific answer to the query on bentonite clays. From my own experience, I have found these materials very difficult to work with and they do not give a visually appealing effect.
Some grades of Versagel (Penreco) may be suitable for your uses if you need a transparent product.
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All of the example formulations given in the data sheet you reference contain one or more stabilisers.
Can I suggest to you that you gain a little more experience in product formulation before you proceed much further with your experimentation. The owner of this site produces courses on cosmetic formulation (see to the right of this page) or I have posted details of an online (downloadable) textbook on cosmetics https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/2807/book-available-for-free-download#latest
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Is it your intention to saponify fats (triglycerides) using TEA or are you neutralising fatty acids?
If the former then it is likely you will get side reactions forming coloured by-products, slow reaction rates due to the intrinsic weakness of TEA as an alkali and, as the TEA soap will most likely be a liquid, problems in separating the soap from the glycerine formed during the saponification.
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I am fully retired from work now and unable to undertake any consultative work. There are numerous others here who offer consulting services.
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Cationic bentonites (Bentones) make very fine dispersions in liquids.
http://www.essentialingredients.com/productdetail.aspx?CatID=0&FunID=0&Srch=bentone%20gel
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More or less.
I have worked with the Jungbunzlauer gluconic acid and know that the true ratio of acid to lactone varies with temperature so working with the preparation as supplied can present some problems in certain circumstances. Gluconic acid is a very weak acid and, from distant memory, you may not require much gluconate salt to give the pH you require.
I think with these materials and the delay in the hydrolysis that it may be best to prepare test buffer solutions on an empirical basis, carefully noting the quantities of each component, giving time for equilibration and proceeding from there.
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Perhaps when you have an acceptable, stable formulation worked out the solubility problem will disappear.
Have you seen this?
https://www.activeformulas.com/products/kojic-acid-dipalmitate
