johnb
Forum Replies Created
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The term “saponifiable” should only be applied to materials capable of forming a soap when hydrolysed by appropriate treatment with an alkali. This being so, the only materials capable of saponification are fats ( which are defined as the fatty acid esters of glycerol). Naturally occurring fats are seldom 100% glyceride and contain minor amounts of other materials which may not be reactive under the conditions imposed by the saponification process - these are the unsaponifiables.
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This must be drawn up by a lawyer and worded in a way suitable for the country/countries to which it applies.
I had great problems a few years ago licencing one of my patents to a Canadian manufacturin company and finding suitable wording for contracts that would be acceptable to both countries (UK and Canada). This difficulty was compounded by the licensee paying me in US rather than Canadian dollars. It is the niggly detail that is all important and it is well worth the cost of getting things done professionally
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I’m really apolitical, but isn’t a “philosophical Trump” an oxymoronic concept? LOL!
I am a moderator on a forum dedicated to computer matters where there is a section devoted to light hearted pastimes including word games. One of the games is Alphabetic Opposites in which a word is matched with its opposite meaning. The game has gone through the alphabet several times now with Trump being the opposing word in each example.
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4% solids is too high, John?
I think my terminology may have casued some confusion. Over here the term “solids content” means all ingredients other than water.
Very funny! But it will taste disgustingly sweet with licorice and stevia…
Imagine how sweet with sucralose?
That sweetness would be tempered by the extreme bitterness of the quinine!
More seriously, these additives are really intended for action (or “treatment”) on the scalp and hair roots. The intention of a hair conditioner is to give a softening or conditioning effect on the hair itself via the deposition of a cationic surfactant. These pseudo-pharmaceuticals will have little real effect on hair.
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Marketing puff. There is nothing unusual in the product - certainly nothing that could be described as a “prebiotic” (whatever that is).
Avobenzone 3% (sunscreen), Homosalate 5% (sunscreen), Octisalate 5%
(sunscreen), Octocrylene 7% (sunscreen)
Water (La Roche-Posay Prebiotic Thermal Water), Glycerin, Silica,
Dimethicone, Niacinamide, PEG-100 Stearate, Glyceryl Stearate, Stearic
Acid, Stearyl Alcohol, Allantoin, Ceramide NP, Dimethicone/vinyl
Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Sodium Hydroxide, Myristic Acid, Myristyl
Alcohol, Palmitic Acid, Ammonium Polyacryloyldimethyl Taurate, Disodium
Edta, Capryloyl Glycine, Caprylyl Glycol, Citric Acid, Xanthan Gum,
T-butyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Tocopherol(La Roche-Posay Prebiotic Thermal Water is declared as water, nothing else. Just because it may be obtained from a geothermal source does not impart supernatural properties).
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In my view, far too high solids content.
Peppermint oil at the level is likely to be very irritant.
What does the stevia do, apart from give a sweet taste? This would be counteracted by the extreme bitterness of the quinine, though!
The only important part of a hair conditioner is the cationic(s). Everything else gets washed down the sink. With that in mind, all you need is to have a consumer acceptable base containg a cationic surfactant.
A conditioner I’m aware of that had a very successful market share for a long time comprised only stearalkonium chloride, hydroxyethyl cellulose (viscosifier) and cetearyl alcohol (opacifier) plus water, colour, fragrance. Solids content was about 2%. Even in that the cetearyl alcohol was unneccesary but was included for consumer satisfaction (gave the impression of “strength” which a clear product lacked). The HEC did have a purpose in delaying the inevitable journey into the drain.
Sorry, but I am unable to see the justification for stuffing anything and everything into a product most of which will end up going straight down the plughole.
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You would be far better using pre-neutralised DDBS as your main detergent. This would obviate the use of dangerous materials (LABSA and NaOH) and make the manufacture a much simpler mixing process.
Thickening is provided by complex formation of the mixture of NaDDBS, SLES and sodium chloride. Excess NaCl will cause the detergents to precipitate and/or have poor cold stability.
The real cleaning agent is the NaDDBS. SLES is mainly a foaming agent present to satisfy the user that the product is functioning well.
You will need a preservative.
I don’t know where you are located but in many countries it is possible to buy premixed concentrates of dishwashing detergents ready for dilution and finishing with colour and fragrance. This would be the easiest approach for you and will provide a balanced blend in which the foam collapse corresponds with the end of the cleaning power.
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“False Wrongs” and “False Rights” … do you work in the Trump Administration? … LOL!
Wasn’t it also Dubya who spouted on about Known unknowns, known knowns, unknown knowns & unknown unknowns?
Back to my point:
A point about INCI. Despite what current cosmetic formulators may think, INCI and its predecessor the CTFA Ingredients list was produced wholly for the benefit of the consumer to end the secrecy that used to prevail over cosmetic products to provide standardised information that could be of use for consumers who may have hypersensitivity/allergy to cosmetic ingredients. This being the case, there is definitely no obligation for a manufacturer to disclose the viscosity of the dimethicone he uses or the fatty acid distribution of the glyceride in CCT.
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ltruong This formula has many more problems than the relative levels of C25 & GMS.
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Carbomer 980 is manufactured in a relatively harmless (low toxicity) solvent system than the 940 grade.
Carbomer 940 originally used benzene as a reaction medium but this was changed many, many years ago to less toxic but still aromatic solvent system.
The residual solvent in either grade is extremely low and unlikely to cause any problems.
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MarkBroussard raises an important point regarding the composition of CCT but, it is more complicated than that.
Whilst CCT may nominally comprise glyceryl tricaprate and glyceryl tricaprylate, the method and conditions of manufacture is nonselective regarding the positioning of the fatty acids on the three hydroxyl groups of the glycerol so isomers will also be formed including:
glyceryl 1,2-dicaprate 3-monocaprylate
glyceryl 1,3-dicaprate 2-monocaprylate
glyceryl 1,3-dicaprylate 2-monocaprate
glyceryl 2,3-dicaprylate 1-monocaprate
Each of these have different physical properties and the relative proportions of each will influence the character of the final product. This is why, in some critical applications, there is not a straight swap between, say, Myritol 318 and Miglyol 810.This relative positioning of fatty acids on the glycerol “backbone” has a huge influence on the physical properties of fats where the relatively small number of fatty acids results in the enormous number of different fats, both animal and vegetable.
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I’m very familiar with the term “car bomber” as that used to be the name used by the manufacturing operatives at one place I worked.
There were lots of other “misnomers” most of which I can’t recall but on theat does stick in my mind is ace top hen one - which is, if you remove the spaces, acetophenone.
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The formulation you have given has a distinct resemblance to a pharmaceutical aqueous cream. The high level of hydrocarbons (mineral oil & petrolatum) is responsible for the lack of esthetics - tending to give a greasy skin feel/poor absorption and glycerin in high amounts will give a sticky skin feel.
I think a re-examination of your formulae and comparison with marketed creams which meet your criteria would help a lot in producing a more suitable
product. Care must be taken so that you are not introducing a load of snake oil and fairy dust into your basic formulae - at this stage anyway. -
Virashkgupta your should start a new thread for your enquiry to be able to get the best responses.
Carbopol 940 will thicken the mixture to a gel but to maintain free flowing properties you would be better using 941 type.
Are you sure this is a feasible concept? Most of the world has too many of these sanitizer products and the marketplace is very difficult to enter successfully.
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Why do you think you need this high level of allantoin?
Just because 2% may be the maximum level permitted by various authorities it does not mean that lower levels are ineffective.If you need to use high levels, a micronised form is available. This is used as a dispersion in the product rather than a solution.
There are various allantoin derivatives available which may have a better solubility or improved properties which may be desirable in your formulation.
Have a look at http://www.akema.it/allantoin.htm
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What is the purpose of the castor oil in the product? If it is merely an emollient and you find it is the cause of your problem, don’t use it. A level of 0.3% will have little or no effect on emolliency.
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Does that give them the right of non-compliance with FDA/INCI standards?
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The list ain’t INCI anyway!
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As an initial thought, how pure is the zinc oxide?
Rosemary extracts are phenolic and phenols characteristically react with iron to produce an intense red or purple colour. As iron is a common contaminant of ZnO it could be that reaction. -
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of suppliers of essential oils for the small user. Perhaps it would be in your interest to shop around for a supplier who can offer the quantities that you need of a quality that suits you.
On a somewhat larger scale, there are is a large number of of essential oil dealers around the world. They can be found by Internet searches or by searching through trade magazines but bear in mind that your idea of bulk or large quantities might not correspond to theirs.
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Of course the ultimate arbiter in all of this is the consumer/user of your precious, stable emulsion. No matter what physical or chemical attributes it may have, if the user doesn’t like it you have completely wasted your time.
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I’m happy to accept that peracetic acid is on the LOI but both Bill Toge and I find it a somewhat strange ingredient to use in a product of this type, particularly considering its reactivity and poor stability.
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Bill, interesting! I didn’t look at the B&L site.
I recall that a long time ago B&L had an interest in peracetic acid as a “safe” disinfectant for contact lenses but it never got anywhere as it wasn’t as safe as they first thought (I worked for a short time for a peracetic manufacturer). It is widely used in the food industry as it easily decomposes to oxygen and acetic acid.
I still don’t believe that panthenol is stable in the presence of oxidisng agents like peracetic.
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I don’t know if this will add anything to the discussion but lactic acid in the form of yoghourt is an effective folk remedy for Candida infections.
Lactic acid at a suitable concentration also acts as a moisturiser and general “good” item for skin products.
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I wonder if peracetic acid is a mistranslation of dehydroacetic acid?