[jiroband]

Great - thank you so much, Imosca!

[jiroband]

Thank you, Belassi! 

I saw that information as well, but it is my understanding that when researchers do these experiments, they tend to bandage (whatever the chemical is) directly to the skin and leave it there for hours. In a soap, it would be in contact with the skin for seconds before it is rinsed off. You can find this ingredient in DIY online stores for making a variety of things, including soaking bath salts for a “luxurious bathing experience.”

I also saw that it is a common ingredient in whitening toothpaste. It is even available in “food grade” and used commercially for: “cheese powders and dips, breakfast cereals, beer and bottled beverages, imitation cheese, frozen dessert, packaged eggs and artificial maple syrup.”

I would still like to know if it would cause a dangerous reaction with lye.

[jiroband]

Thanks again, Mark. Your comments are very much appreciated!

Jim

[jiroband]

Thank you for the reply Mark!

I use “Soapmaker 3” software to calculate my lye and oils - I assure you that it is not lye-heavy. This software has a built-in adjustment for using a concentrated pre-made lye solution which adjusts lye solution requirements accordingly. I’ve been making soap with this software for over 8 years, and find it invaluable.

Jim

[jiroband]

I would only use an immersion/stick blender for making natural lye soap to bring the oils and lye solution to “trace.” 

Using an immersion blender for synthetic soap (detergent), such as what you’re making here, incorporates tons of foamy, creamy bubbles that will take days or weeks to dissipate — and may not ever clear up completely.

One of the first mistakes I made in my first batch of shampoo was using an immersion blender. I started mixing by hand, but then noticed a cloudiness which I interpreted as a solubility issue — so I got out my trusty immersion blender and  — big mistake.

When making a shampoo or bodywash, I ALWAYS stir by hand VERY slowly. Even then, I will get some foam and cloudiness that may take a few days to clear up.

Also, some fragrance oils will cause a permanent cloudiness that will never clear up.

[jiroband]

I know it sounds like I have stock in this stuff because I keep pushing it, but if I was allowed access to only one emollient for conditioner, shampoo and bodywash, I would choose DPMA. (I feel kind of dumb, but I didn’t realize that Lotioncrafter carried it under the name Cromollient-SCE.)  

OK, I’ll get off my DPMA soapbox now - I promise.

I don’t know if you’ve come across this site, Swift Crafty Monkey, but I highly recommend it. It’s run by Susan Barclay-Nichols, who is also a chemist. The site contains a wealth of information on ingredients and formulation “recipes,” and it’s updated several times each week. Susan is fantastic at explaining the science behind ingredients and how they interact with skin and hair.

Here is a quick link to her section on emollients
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/p/oil-butter-posts.html

The ONLY negative with the site is that she is really busy, and if you ask a question, it likely will NOT get answered. 

[jiroband]

I, too, am a huge menthol fan —  I have the best luck dissolving it in my oils. (I grind it with a mortar and pestle into a powder first so it dissolves more quickly.) I generally opt for natural, plant-based oils, so I’m not sure if mineral oil makes a difference.

[jiroband]

Thanks Bill and Bob — I appreciate your replies!

[jiroband]

Olivem 1000 (olive wax) is from Hallstar with headquarters in Italy:

Hallstar Italia Corporate Office

Via Ernesto Rossi, 60/62
20862 Arcore (MB)
Italy

+39 0396180447

Phenonip:

INCI: Phenoxyethanol (and) Methylparaben (and) Ethylparaben (and) Butylparaben (and) Propylparaben (and) Isobutylparaben

[jiroband]

Try to do a bit more testing to see if the BTMS-50 is truly part of the problem. This is such a fantastic conditioner and emulsifier, it would be sad if you had to leave it out.

In my humble opinion, I think you would get much better results adding Jojoba oil and cutting down on the silicones.

Getting back to slip and softness — I really recommend Di-PPG-2 Myreth-10 Adipate and CETAC. You can get CETAC at Lotioncrafter, and the Di-PPG-2 from thepersonalformulator.com.

[jiroband]

FYI - I use powdered AV 200X at 0.05% - 0.1% in my shampoo.

While you’re at Lotioncrafter, look at these ingredients which I highly recommend as indispensable anti-irritants:

Allantoin
DL-Panthenol
Olivem 300

I use Allantoin and DL-Panthenol, each at 2.0%.
I use Olivem300 at 5.0%.

Jim

[jiroband]

Thanks for your comments, Mr. B.!

[jiroband]

Have you tried the surfactant Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate? I buy the powder form of it from makingcosmetics.com It’s gentle and produces tons of lather. It’s my favorite surfactant for shampoo, together with coco betaine.

Like your formulas on your post about conditioners, you don’t seem to be adding much in the way of anti-irritants. You might want to try adding Allantoin and Aloe. Since this is a shampoo, you may also want to add Olivem 300 (from Lotioncrafter) to help with dryness and irritation. It’s a great “refatting” ingredient that doesn’t kill lather.

[jiroband]

You could go for Cera Bellina as Bob suggested, or something like olive oil wax (aka: Olivem 1000 at Lotioncrafter). 

Since Sucragel is a very thick liquid (syrup-like), I don’t think it will do what you need it to do. Your other ingredients will eventually settle out of it.

I’m someone who is “pro-preservative” in general, but I think you may be able to get by without an additional chemical preservative here — since what you have sounds to be totally anhydrous (water-free). The Vitamin E (tocopherol) will help prevent the oils from going rancid, and the essential oils, sugar, and salt are not friendly to the growth of “nasty” stuff.

However, if it was me, I would add some Phenonip as a preservative just to be on the safe side, especially if I was selling this to the public.

[jiroband]

Thanks, Belassi.

Is it still usable, or has it “decomposed”?

[jiroband]

Hi Tim,

I’m assuming this is a rinse-out product. Have you considered that you may be sensitive to or having an allergic reaction to one of the ingredients?

Some things that stand out to me:

1. I see you’re bringing the pH down to 4.5. If you have any pre-existing scalp irritation, you may be itching from the low pH.

2. Your silicones add up to 10% — I would think this would feel “greasy.” (Not that this would necessarily cause itching — it just seems like a lot.) I would keep silicones in the 2% - 4% range.

3. If you want more slip and softness, consider adding Di-PPG-2 Myreth-10 Adipate, CETAC, and DL-Panthenol. 

4. I would also include a hydrolyzed protein.

5. Consider adding Allantoin and Aloe as anti-irritants.

[jiroband]

Hi wb1990,

I’m assuming you are adding the coffee grounds wet. If so, I think this will be a problem as water will likely continue to seep out of the coffee grounds slowly over time. 

Have you considered placing the coffee grounds on a flat cookie sheet and letting them dry out in your oven on the lowest temperature setting? This could be an option.

If you are using wet coffee grounds with oils, you will need an emulsifier. The choice of emulsifiers depends greatly on the proportion of wet coffee grounds to oil. Are you adding 2% oils to 98% wet coffee grounds, or 50% oils to 50% wet coffee grounds, or what?

[jiroband]

Hi stephanm,

I have been making traditional lye soap for years, and I know what you mean by “trace.” I think the speed you use depends on how quickly you want the batch to come to trace. 

Personally, I usually want to slow trace down in order to have more time to thoroughly mix everything together — so my vote is for the lowest speed setting. Since you’re using a heavy-duty immersion blender, it will probably be faster than your old stick blender anyway.

Also, like Bob said, you probably don’t want to go so fast that you whip air into it and create foam.

[jiroband]

Adding Cera bellina ( INCI: Polyglycerol-3 Beeswax) can be helpful in getting oils, butters, and waxes to blend together more uniformly and smoothly. It’s great for creating oil gels and increasing stability. 

[jiroband]

I think ozgirl is correct about the need for an emulsifier. Have you considered using a primary emulsifier like Behentrimonium Methosulfate (BTMS)? It’s a great emulsifier with conditioning properties as well. This is pretty much a standard used in commercial hair conditioners.

Cetearyl and cetyl alcohol are good secondary emulsifiers, but not really strong enough on their own to maintain a stable emulsion.

It also sounds like you may be having compatibility issues with your preservative system.

[jiroband]

Hello everyone, and thank you for accepting me into your group!

I’m Jim from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Born and raised in Iowa, I graduated form Iowa State University with a degree in Landscape Architecture, and moved to Florida soon after.

My adventures in cosmetic chemistry began about 10 years ago in soapmaking with a strong desire to create all-natural soap and skincare products.My relentless quest for proven, scientific information has led me to the conclusion that not all natural ingredients are safe, and not all synthetic ingredients are harmful. I’m here to learn more, and to contribute where I can.

I’m one of those people with a restless mind who is interested in many things. Aside from landscape architecture, I’m obsessed with computers (I built my last two), home remodeling, cooking & baking, perfumery, and cold-process soap-making as well as all types of bath and body products. I’m also an inventor with a patent-pending on my new product, the Dish Grappler, designed to hold down lightweight items in the dishwasher.

If I’m not home, you can probably find me at the Home Depot.

[jiroband]

I guess fragrance is in the nose of the beholder, as I consider benzoin to have a vanilla-like aroma. I am a vanilla fragrance freak who has been on an obsessive quest to find a vanilla fragrance oil that holds up under saponification — I am also a cold-process soap maker who has yet to find a vanilla fragrance oil that I’m satisfied with.

What is your goal? Are you looking for a good fragrance fixative, or are you looking for a vanilla fragrance oil? 

I think benzoin is going to be problematic in lotions and creams unless highly thinned out with something like DPG. Without thinning it down, it is likely to stay together in globs that refuse to mix in. However, adding sufficient DPG may possibly create issues with the stability of the lotion.

[jiroband]

Hi Honeybean!

I’ve worked with carrier oils and essential oils a lot over the past 10+ years, and I’ve worked with making many types of facial masks, too. Here are my thoughts:

• Consider selling this as a dry mix — without water. The small amounts of oils you are using can easily be mixed into the powdered ingredients. 
• In fact, the amount of oils you are using is so minuscule, it is likely not providing much effect in your product. 
• By creating this as a dry mix, you will save on shipping costs, as water is a relatively heavy thing to ship. (Just provide instructions to the consumer on how much water to add per each use.)
• By creating this as a dry mix, you will not need an emulsifier if the consumer is to mix this up as a fresh batch immediately before each use. 
• By creating this as a dry mix, you will not need a preservative.
  
• I also think that any fruit or vegetable powders and extracts may get quite gooey/slimey, off-colored, and possibly strange-smelling if sold as a wet pre-mix — even if you used a strong preservative.
  
• I strongly agree with everyone else that you should formulate based on precise weight rather than on drops — assuming you are ultimately intending on making large quantities. A decent jewelry scale should cost between $25 - $40.
• As ozgirl states, check out swiftcraftymonkey. Susan (aka “Swift”) is AWESOME! She is a chemist, and always provides fact-based, easy to understand explanations and instruction.

Best of luck!

[jiroband]

Have you considered the option of a 2-part system?

Part 1 - the water-based, water-soluble ingredients applied first, followed by

Part 2 - the oil-based emollients and occlusives

This way, you can avoid potential issues with emulsification.

If this must be “all-natural,” what are you using as a preservative? I hope you are using one. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any reliable natural preservatives. 

[jiroband]

Hmmmm. . . Have you made this yet? If so, did it stay emulsified for an extended period of time? (I’m assuming this would be important for a product you were selling.)

It looks like you may be wanting the beeswax, lecithin, and borax to act as an emulsification system, but I would be concerned that it would stay in an emulsified state for very long. Also, I personally would not want borax on my skin in a leave-on product.

I see you are using “water-based lanolin.” I’m guessing this is not natural, and that it may actually be ethoxylated lanolin, as lanolin is not naturally water-soluble.

I understand the desire to create all-natural cosmetic products — that’s how I got started in my endeavors, but in recent years I’ve been adding synthetic materials. It is important to keep in mind that not everything natural is safe, and that not all synthetic ingredients are harmful.