jemolian
Forum Replies Created
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On the topic….OF using esters as moisturizers….just so I can tuck this into my data banks….what lite esters also do double duty….and do a little moisturizing on the side?@Graillotion maybe just on the additional moisturization side with data available for comparison.
- Coco-Caprylate/Caprate - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8i26333c578dm9/Liponate_CCC_2019B.pdf?dl=0
- Hydrogenated Polyisobutene - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8a6fl8nogfiiqv4/Panalane_SS_V.pdf?dl=0
Also Sensolene, not sure if you consider it lite but it broke me out over a few days.
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Perhaps when you use hurdle / static preservatives since you’d want your users not to touch the product directly.
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If it doesn’t contain a volatile component, normally i add it into the heated oil phase if applicable. Sometimes they would have recommendations on processing guidelines on the tech sheet if any.
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You can use the oil dispersed version https://lotioncrafter.com/products/hyaluronic-acid-oleo-ha?_pos=1&_sid=c36c3cbe8&_ss=r
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I’d say these 2 are the most important questions regarding to the main question since the answer can be very different.
-1- Which ingredients/actives help mattify the skin?-2- How can I make the finish of my emulsion less shiny?Most of the time the choice of accompanying materials can change the looks of the formulation.
When i mixed Hydrogenated Polyisobutene + Tridecyl Trimellitate + M 202 + Carbomer 980, it turned out slightly matte and lotiony.
When i mixed Hydrogenated Polyisobutene + Coco-Caprylate/Caprate + M 202 + Sepinov EMT 10, it turned out glossier and slightly firmer.
I started with E-Wax, then 165, then the M series & others. :'(
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@Abdullah i think realistically you should have enough material to reduce TEWL, but at the same time balance the preceptive factors (skin feel / feeling after application) of the applied product. Some people might feel that it’s overly suffocating due to the amount of occlusives added. It’s hard to really reduce TEWL to a large percentage unless you are using petrolatum, which would be the cheapest material with 98% reduction with minimal 5% (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303091758_Moisturizers_The_Slippery_Road), but you will have to balance the out the rest of the preceptive factors.
So far i’ve only seen that prolong occlusion induces skin damage, though i doubt using an applied material like an occlusive ingredient would be able to do the same inducing that a physical occlusive. could. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10420139/
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@ngarayeva001 no problem. I only managed to come across it one day when looking at different books on moisturizers
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352647518300133Just some relevance for the table, but personally i think the TEWL percentage is mainly theoretical unless you have in vivo testing done. The main thing is that the TEWL reduction with occlusives should be designed based on the type of product you are formulating for the intended customer demographic. If the intended demographic don’t need a highly occlusive product, then there’s no particular need to really think too much about it. It’s more important to get the end user feedback.
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@Abdullah
the table is from the book called “Handbook of cosmetic science and technology”. You can find the PDF online or if you only want to see the chapter, it’s on google books here -> -
Butylene glycol for short term hydration is also less than glycerin. Isn’t it?
Yes, so normally for a higher short term humectancy, the combination can be used, but if your humidity is average of 52%, then butylene glycol won’t really make sense. You can take a look at the reference below, which is the normal table when you search for “humectant humidity” on google.
In terms of the 50+% humidity range, you can consider about 3% to 5% of glycerin. In my test, in an air conditioned room, at about 50% humidity, 2% glycerin USP isn’t that tacky.
Regarding the pH, it depends on your overall formulation, but there’s no issues with pH being at 4.5 - 5.5 to be honest. My preference is pH 5 - 5.5.
In this paper, The role of epidermal lipids in cutaneous permeability
barrier homeostasis:For example, the activities of both b-glucocerebrosidase and acidic sphingomyelinase are optimal at or below pH 5.5, which is very similar to the pH of the stratum corneum. Conversely, many of the proteases in the stratum corneum have a pH optimum of 7 or higher;
therefore, their activities are decreased at the usual stratum
corneum pH of 5.5. If the pH of the stratum corneum is
increased, the activities of b-glucocerebrosidase and acidic
sphingomyelinase are reduced and the extracellular processing of glucosylceramides and sphingomyelins to ceramides
is impaired, leading to abnormalities in the structure of the
extracellular lipid membranes and decreased permeability
barrier function (4, 41–43). Furthermore, increases in stratum corneum pH stimulate protease activity, resulting in increased corneocyte desquamation (4, 41, 42).Though, ultimately it’s up to you and your formulations requirements really.
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If you have to stick to one, then glycerin would be fine. Depending on the what you are trying to achieve and the suitability of the formulation, the choice can really be different.
For example, butylene glycol can make sense if you are intending to give a short term / up front impression that your product is very hydrating but mainly the long term hydrating function is sustained by glycerin. This would deal more with the customer’s perception.
Alternatively, other humectants like sodium lactate would likely be a good choice but if your formulation is not electrolyte sensitive. Assuming that you are cost saving, then it may not work out since you likely will use carbomer as part of the formulation for stability purposes.
The main issue with just using glycerin would be that it can be quite tacky depending on the percentage used and the humidity your intended users are at. In a high humidity climate, you don’t need that much glycerin, but at lower humidity, you can consider adding more. So a mixture of humectants can be used to create different skin feels as required.
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@Abdullah it depends on multiple factors really. If you don’t mind the natural/synthetic status, then the normal combination of butylene glycol + glycerin is fine enough in most cases, unless you want to use something more fanciful for specific purposes such as “natural derived” (eg, with propanediol or pentylene glycol), co-emulsification (eg, with pentylene glycol).
From what i’ve seen, butylene glycol normally boosts the humectancy profile for the first 1 to 2 hours, which is similar to the Figure above. Good thing about the glycols, they would help boost preservation to a certain extent.
Though just to mention, there’s also 1,2-Hexanediol.
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@Mel55 it’s like the skin feel of the emulsifier, you can look into the skin feel description they provide and if any of them fit your needs. Normally the BTMS has a powdery skin feel if i recall correctly?
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It’s better to do a combination since they have been shown to work better combined.
Here’s a screenshot from one of the test for a comparison done to compare individually.
Link from my dropbox (since i can’t find the PDF online strangely, please save if require in case i move it) ->
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4r009ugoq0k077a/Moisturizing%20Effects%20of%20Diglycerol%20combined%20with%20glycerol.pdf?dl=0
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@Abdullah i’m not too certain. I’ve not really looked into that yet.
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@abierose it will depend on the charge, so the anionic chelating agents won’t do. I’m not sure what charge sodium phytate is, but if it’s anionic but used in a small percentage, perhaps it would still be fine.
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It will turn out as a giggly marmalade look at about 1% when using normal ingredients.
Though you should just try it at 0.5% and 1% to see how much a loss of viscosity it would be due to the acid.
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It looks like a conditioner formulation. Though strangely some people also use BTMS for normal skin formulations, example the Cerave brand. A chelating agent may not be suitable for this case due to the BTMS.
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@Abdullah they do have quite many modules and structured formats for different formulas as different files. Will recommend dropping them an email to about about the book though, I believe they can be purchased separately. There should be info on their site on the ones available.
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@Paprik there shouldn’t be that many changes to the text i think.
It’s from this page https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3mor9eu436rtiu/Screen%20Shot%2006-24-21%20at%2008.43%20AM.PNG?dl=0
*I’ll delete it after a few days.
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@Abdullah it should be the text from the lipids module from Institute of Personal Care Science
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@emma1985 EWG had listed the 13 ingredients CNN mentioned in article since 2018, so i won’t be surprised if they took the list from them and gotten a quote.
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I saw there’s a post on reddit after seeing this thread, so here’s the study that the CNN article mentioned based on what the reddit commenters mentioned i guess?
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You will need to ask yourself if the combination makes sense in terms of your claims, frequency of use, packaging, and volume of product. It depends on how you intend your customers to use your products.
For example, are you intending to package it as
- a 30 pieces, 2ml ampoule for a basic LAA serum set for daily use
- a 12 pieces, 2ml ampoule for a LAA + GDL or SA, exfoliation set for thrice a week
The intention of use, frequency, and how you create the product set is very different, thus affecting the sales and prices of the products.
Alternatively, you can just use a willow bark extract for claims if the pH range is suitable.