[jemolian]

Maybe to be specific, if you choose to use aristoflex or other polymerics, you can remove the xanthan gum. The polymerics can act as a co-emulsifier & stabilizer. 

If you choose to add dimethicone, perhaps it’s best to still retain a gum for stability if possible. 

You can pick and choose which ever that fits your cost or product requirements. 

[jemolian]

Price can be relative to the cost and the bulk you are producing, however that said, are you sure you are not infringing the loreal patent for the CEF serum? You might want to check out the details of the patent before deciding because a company has been sued recently. 

[jemolian]

In my formula it has Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Sodium Phytate, botanical extracts, and peptides. Are these incompatible with Arisoflex? Thank you.

With the mention of Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, i’m assuming you are using SK Influx, i don’t think that would be an issue. 

For Sodium Phytate, as Graillotion mentioned, it depends on the usage rates. Aristoflex won’t be able to take electrolytes, though at 0.05% to 0.1% of Sodium Phytate it might still be fine, but you will only know when doing stability testing. If the Aristoflex don’t work out with the percentage, you can always switch out to other polymerics or carbomer or gums depend on how you want it to be. 

For botanical extracts & peptides, you will need to see what preservatives they used since they may choose to preserve them with Sodium Benzoate or Potassium Sorbate, so it’s something that should be taken note of, besides from the more obvious botanicals that contains electrolytes like aloe or coconut. 

[jemolian]

Xanthan Gum is one of the basic starter ingredient and it’s easiest to process, though i prefer HEC as well. For HEC, it either requires heat or alkaline pH to hydrate quicker, so it really depends on your applications if it can fit your skin feel or processes, you can switch the gums accordingly. 

[jemolian]

I mentioned previously, that the gum might also cause soapiness besides from the over use of emulsifiers, so you can consider:

• 0.25% Eumulgin + 3.5% Montanov 68 + 0.15% Xanthan Gum (Likely to still have some soaping, if not you can consider adding dimethicone or other agents as a replacement)
• 3.5% Montanov with 0.75% Aristoflex (Should make a light cream, can increase to 1% for thicker viscosity)

For the Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate:

[jemolian]

In theory, try reducing your Montanov 68 to 3.5% and see how it goes. Alternatively reduce both slightly. 

[jemolian]

The soaping depends on a few factors though. If you have too much emulsifiers with too little lipid content to match, too much gums, etc. Perhaps it’s best to reduce the Olivem 1000 to a lower percentage, but it depends on the percentage of oils that you have. 

You can try a basic structure of the following and see if you like it: 

• ~10% oils / esters / lipids
• 3% Montanov 202 or 165 type
• 2% - 3% Cetyl Alcohol
• 0.5% Carbomer or Aristoflex

[jemolian]

@Amjad, Lubrizol has quite some sample formulations for alcohol gels on ulprospector, so you can signup an account and take a look at their process if you need. There should be some that also uses humectants as well, though it would be likely ones that they produced.  

[jemolian]

I believe normally the chemical exfoliants like acids do work, since they would exfoliate even on short contact. For oil ingredients like tea tree oil, i used to use an face wash with tea tree oil, it seem also to work, though i did leave it on my pimple areas for a minute or two. 

[jemolian]

For lipids, i took out the jojoba esters as i’m testing with Isononyl Isononanoate + Triethylhexanoin, adds up to 9% or 10%, though i can up the percentage to 15% or 20% without issues since Isononyl Isononanoate seem to penetrate very quickly.

[jemolian]

Perhaps try only using one of the gum in a test and see if that’s the issue. 

[jemolian]

There are quite a few posts on solubility of SA already, so depending on your preference, the solvent varies. 

Normally for a 1% SA cream, i use Betaine. For 2%, i use Octyldodecanol with Betaine. 

[jemolian]

@Graillotion

So what are you saying….gives the best feel?  EMT 10….a combination…or Aristoflex AVC?
I had thought I liked the Aristoflex the best.  I am having a tiny issue with the feel created by adding Eumulgin…(see my latest post).

I’ve not tried anionic emulsifiers yet so i’m not too certain about them at the moment. I think for the skin feel wise, i’m trying to figure out from the cost wise point of view. I’m fine with mixing the following: 

• Sepinov + Ultrez (1:1)
• Sepinov + Aristoflex (1:1)
• Aristoflex + (Hydrolyzed) Sclerotium Gum (0.2% or less)

Using any of these combinations should be able to produce a slightly silky skin feel. I’ve not tried the 3rd combo at the moment but based on observation on the Sclerotium Gum, it would also be able to provide such as skin feel. 

Are you aware of any US based re-packers that are selling Emulium Delta MB?

Bought mine from China as per usual, that reseller also has other emulsifiers from Gattefosse. 

Perhaps an alternative would be Lipomulse Luxe (Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-40 Stearate (and) Ceteareth-20)

[jemolian]

When mixing Sepinov with other polymerics Sepinov seem to not standout in terms of texture since it looks to me that it adopts the firmness from Aristoflex and jiggly look from Sepimax. Skin feel wise, you could still feel the Sepinov, if i didn’t observe wrongly. 

[jemolian]

I think depends on the requirements, if there’s no or minimal electrolytes, body vs non-bodying, perhaps: 

• 165 type (Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100 Stearate) for non bodying
• Emulium Delta MB (Cetyl Alcohol (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-75 Stearate (and) Ceteth-20 (and) Steareth-20) for bodying, rich velvet
• Sepinov EMT 10 for polymeric, silky

[jemolian]

Probably diamonds? or other gem stones, also sold on FSS.

Ingredients extracted from humans then treated for use, such as Human Fibroblast Conditioned Media (seen this in a Japanese product) or Adipose Derived Adult Stem Cell Conditioned Media (ingredient in the MLM brand, Jeunesse’s serum which is extracted from Human Fat)

[jemolian]

So far i’ve not come across any. Perhaps the only vague mention is this: Hydrating effects of moisturizer active compounds incorporated into hydrogels: in vivo assessment and comparison between devices https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19250164/

What i’d recommend is to roughly reference the results from the manufacturer with other data from other ingredients. 

TBH, i won’t put too much hope into the moisturization of Aquaxyl since it seems at least to me it’s more of a booster for the growth of certain components of the skin then a strong humectant. 

[jemolian]

Aquaxyl is a humectant type and Xyliance is an emulsifier, so i’m not too sure how to compare the “moisture” effect. They can be used together but personally i feel that Aquaxyl isn’t that moisturizing perhaps compared to other humectants. 

[jemolian]

No, i won’t say middle-aged people, but mainly for people with dry or damaged skin. There’s no age group to ingredients, only the company decides it based on how they want to market it. If based on the ingredients, they don’t look like it’s skewed towards middle-age people. 

[jemolian]

Perhaps this is a common misunderstanding due to the term. 

“Oil-free” is mainly a marketing term, which generally only excludes ingredients that INCI has the word “oil” in them. Normally plant oils or essential oils, and sometimes fragrance oils. 

Other lipids like waxes, butters, esters, ceramides, are still not considered “oils” by naming. 

Lipid content that are in the PC product includes: Ethyl Macadamiate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Triethylhexanoin, Glyceryl Stearate, Ceramide NP, Ceramide AP, Ceramide EOP, Phytosphingosine, Cholesterol

If you are looking for lipid-free, look for a gel.

Are ingredients such as Ceramide, Cholesterol increasing acne for oily skin? 

It depends on the cause of your acne. Acne can be due to food / diet, hygiene, bacterial, hormonal, etc. 

Personally i don’t really consider breakouts as acne, however no one can really tell you how the ingredients would really react for your skin except by patch testing. 

The purpose of this product is to use moisturizers for oily people. But why use Ceramide, Cholesterol. Ceramide can also signal cells and cell membranes, stimulating lipid synthesis. I think it isn’t very good

The point of adding the Sk-Influx ceramide blend for oily skin people is mainly because some people have oily skin due to dryness or due to weakened skin barrier. So it makes some sense to use these ingredients. 

[jemolian]

For my moisturizer i’m already using Sepitonic M3 which contains minerals, so if i add any more electrolytes i’d have to change to another co-thickener and up the cost to perhaps Sepimax from Ultrez 20, haha. I don’t think there’s any issues if i just use the sodium phytate without other electrolytes.

[jemolian]

Probably because not many people looked into it i guess? But even with the sodium phytate, normally i don’t expect people to use more than 0.2% ? It would still have some moisturization or sebum regulating benefits at lower amounts. 

I’m interested to use it unfortunately it don’t go well with polymerics, which is why i’m using in inositol instead for similar benefits, less the chelating effect. 

[jemolian]

In terms of marketing benefits of sodium phytate, see here 
https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1197592.pdf?bs=10735&b=332188&st=20&r=na&ind=personalcare

Other similar ingredients that have perhaps the similar benefits would be the materials made from rice bran, which can include inositol or perhaps phytic acid. 

[jemolian]

I don’t think liquid emollients would be very occlusive, perhaps you can consider butters, waxes, silicone crosspolymers, sterols, lanolin? Normally an ingredient that comes as a soft paste or harder texture would be perhaps more occlusive.

[jemolian]

I’ve not tried sorbitan stearate but actually with a formula made with 2% Montanov 202 + 1.5% Cetyl Alcohol, it should be reasonably stable on it’s own as a lotion. If not you can do 1:1:1 for Montanov 202, 68 & Cetyl if you prefer a thicker cream. 

Sometimes the type of gum can make the foaming worse, so you can perhaps reduce it or change it. 

Adding silicones or other alternatives would be fine as well. Perhaps 2% Dimethicone ?