[jemolian]

I would believe so. I only have the MSDS for Symdiol 68T, which has Tropolone, so here’s the pdf for reference: https://www.dropbox.com/s/71cgja7seopt2ty/SymDiol68T12HexanediolCaprylylGlycolTroploneAllDocuments.pdf?dl=0

Though you can also refer to the Making Cosmetics version’s SDS https://www.makingcosmetics.com/msds/sds-hexanediol-caprylyl-glycol.pdf

[jemolian]

Thanks for the recommendations. I’ll look into them. 

For the Supermol L, i’ve looked into it yesterday but it seems that it’s not available to purchase though i’m not sure if Crodamol PTIS (Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate) would be a reasonable sub? 

For the Isononyl Isononanoate, i’ve been using it as the light skin feel part of my ester mix already I’ve ordered some C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate as well, so i’ll have to compare it against the Capric/Caprylic Triglyceride & Triethylhexanoin when it arrives. Though looking at some charts comparing esters, they don’t mention C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate having any cushion to it?

[jemolian]

Yes, that was what i was thinking as well previously. From what i’ve seen, the recommended use rates for 1,2-Hexanediol & Pentylene Glycol don’t need to be very high, but in terms of cost wise, is it cheaper compared to the combo you are using? 

For the Symdiol 68, in the marketing brochure, they did mention some moisturizing functionality at about 0.5%. Though Caprylyl Glycol might cause some emulsion instability? I see people having these issues sometimes in the facebook groups when the use Optiphen
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pfb8r222arkjyj/PB_SymDiol-68.pdf?dl=0

If you are using the Euxyl PE 9010, you can consider adding up to 3% of Pentylene Glycol. You can take a look at the pdf for some info for consideration if you haven’t before: 

• dermosoft® Pentiol eco - https://www.dropbox.com/s/qmlt3ucxt3lhatk/PI_dermosoft_Pentiol%20eco_052019.pdf?dl=0
• Hydrolite 5 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwuqpcyvowokqa7/616751%20Hydrolite%205%20QS%20cn.pdf?dl=0
• Hydrolite 5 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vw6uvbvcsuxoia/Hydrolite%205_Green_pb.pdf?dl=0

 For the 1,2-Hexanediol:

• dermosoft_Hexiol - https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6qseudpboqj5eq/Product_Information_dermosoft_Hexiol_2017_EN.pdf?dl=0
• Hydrolite 6 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/mba5hdj6q37qng5/510352%20Hydrolite%206%20O%20QS%20-%201608.pdf?dl=0
• https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8a75j3wuty7dt6/Technical%20Data%20Sheet_Hexiol_V4_12-15.pdf?dl=0

[jemolian]

@helenhelen testing at 3% in 15% Aristoflex Avc, i think it’s hard to tell the difference between the two. Testing at 100% as is, they just feel about equally wet or slightly greasy, so not too much difference there as well. 

I’d say the difference would largely be perhaps the cost and what kind of use rate you’d like to have, besides from the potential irritation that each glycol or diol might cause for the user. Some people do look for Butylene Glycol free products while some people break out from Propanediol due to the high concentration from product range from The Ordinary. 

[jemolian]

You can consider batch testing 0.5% to 2% to see if you get the same effect with a gelling agent I believe the lubrizol sample formulations are around that range for humectants that are added.  

[jemolian]

Looking at the website, the marketing message mentions Hypercolor technology? The color seems to change to white due to heat. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercolor

[jemolian]

Regarding the skin feel wise, they do have some differences, so you can pick which you prefer. I have the following on hand, so if you need to me patch test for a description do let me know: 

• 1,2-Hexanediol
• Pentylene Glycol
• Propylene glycol
• Propanediol
• Butylene Glycol
• SymDiol 68 (1,2-Hexanediol (and) Caprylyl Glycol)
  

User experience wise, 1,2-Hexanediol, Pentylene Glycol, Propylene glycol makes my face tingle, Caprylyl Glycol makes my face warm. I use Propanediol, Butylene Glycol in my hand wash so i’ve not tested it on my face at the moment. 

[jemolian]

My guess would be the mix of xanthan gum with the glycerin? 

When it is was serious Covid times earlier on i had made a 60% IPA gel with Sepimax Zen and Methyl Gluceth-20 (just 0.5%). It’s not very drying compared to liquid no-gel types, and the guys at work use it multiple times a day, every time they are back from their smoke break. 

[jemolian]

To add to the recommendation of testing, i’d recommend to patch test all your functional, structural & additive ingredients if you are not familiar enough with them yet. So, mainly your lipids, emulsifiers/thickener, texture/sensory  modifiers. It’s good to know kind of performance in terms of skin feel, viscosity, look they have at different percentages. This is more or less a one time thing, so just note down your observation. This way you can more or less whip up a formulation quickly based on your work done.  

For example, i’d patch test the Aristoflex at 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.75%, 1% in 30ml batch. Then to patch test the lipids or oils, test it straight at 100%, then test at 2%, 4%, 10% in Aristoflex or other emulsifiers which you have previously tested. Also test humectants in similar way at different dilutions, just not 100% unless they are safe to be applied that way. 

In terms of product design wise, for my current specific themed moisturizer, i’m at my 27th revision. I note the look, pickup, texture / skin feel, smell, performance in higher humidity (~70%) & slightly lower humidity (~50%).   

For example, the 27th revision that i whipped up yesterday, i’m testing a few things at once: 

• the new ingredient that i’m testing is Tremella (humectant)
• the new emulsifier combination i’m testing is Aristoflex with Hydrolyzed Sclerotium Gum
• i’m also testing a lower lipid percentage

If you know what you are testing and which part of observe, it’s possible to make multiple changes to it. So for example for the Tremella, i’m testing if it would cause a tightness as it’s a well known film former, for the emulsifier combo, i’m testing the look, pick up and skin feel. The lipids, i’m testing the moisturization / emolliency. If the ingredients you are testing overlaps in terms of things you want to observe, it’s best to make a separate batch for observation. 

[jemolian]

Normally HAs are water soluble, you might want to look for the oil soluble or dispersible or ones with different “delivery” systems on ulprospector. 

[jemolian]

Maybe to be specific, if you choose to use aristoflex or other polymerics, you can remove the xanthan gum. The polymerics can act as a co-emulsifier & stabilizer. 

If you choose to add dimethicone, perhaps it’s best to still retain a gum for stability if possible. 

You can pick and choose which ever that fits your cost or product requirements. 

[jemolian]

Price can be relative to the cost and the bulk you are producing, however that said, are you sure you are not infringing the loreal patent for the CEF serum? You might want to check out the details of the patent before deciding because a company has been sued recently. 

[jemolian]

In my formula it has Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Sodium Phytate, botanical extracts, and peptides. Are these incompatible with Arisoflex? Thank you.

With the mention of Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, i’m assuming you are using SK Influx, i don’t think that would be an issue. 

For Sodium Phytate, as Graillotion mentioned, it depends on the usage rates. Aristoflex won’t be able to take electrolytes, though at 0.05% to 0.1% of Sodium Phytate it might still be fine, but you will only know when doing stability testing. If the Aristoflex don’t work out with the percentage, you can always switch out to other polymerics or carbomer or gums depend on how you want it to be. 

For botanical extracts & peptides, you will need to see what preservatives they used since they may choose to preserve them with Sodium Benzoate or Potassium Sorbate, so it’s something that should be taken note of, besides from the more obvious botanicals that contains electrolytes like aloe or coconut. 

[jemolian]

Xanthan Gum is one of the basic starter ingredient and it’s easiest to process, though i prefer HEC as well. For HEC, it either requires heat or alkaline pH to hydrate quicker, so it really depends on your applications if it can fit your skin feel or processes, you can switch the gums accordingly. 

[jemolian]

I mentioned previously, that the gum might also cause soapiness besides from the over use of emulsifiers, so you can consider:

• 0.25% Eumulgin + 3.5% Montanov 68 + 0.15% Xanthan Gum (Likely to still have some soaping, if not you can consider adding dimethicone or other agents as a replacement)
• 3.5% Montanov with 0.75% Aristoflex (Should make a light cream, can increase to 1% for thicker viscosity)

For the Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate:

[jemolian]

In theory, try reducing your Montanov 68 to 3.5% and see how it goes. Alternatively reduce both slightly. 

[jemolian]

The soaping depends on a few factors though. If you have too much emulsifiers with too little lipid content to match, too much gums, etc. Perhaps it’s best to reduce the Olivem 1000 to a lower percentage, but it depends on the percentage of oils that you have. 

You can try a basic structure of the following and see if you like it: 

• ~10% oils / esters / lipids
• 3% Montanov 202 or 165 type
• 2% - 3% Cetyl Alcohol
• 0.5% Carbomer or Aristoflex

[jemolian]

@Amjad, Lubrizol has quite some sample formulations for alcohol gels on ulprospector, so you can signup an account and take a look at their process if you need. There should be some that also uses humectants as well, though it would be likely ones that they produced.  

[jemolian]

I believe normally the chemical exfoliants like acids do work, since they would exfoliate even on short contact. For oil ingredients like tea tree oil, i used to use an face wash with tea tree oil, it seem also to work, though i did leave it on my pimple areas for a minute or two. 

[jemolian]

For lipids, i took out the jojoba esters as i’m testing with Isononyl Isononanoate + Triethylhexanoin, adds up to 9% or 10%, though i can up the percentage to 15% or 20% without issues since Isononyl Isononanoate seem to penetrate very quickly.

[jemolian]

Perhaps try only using one of the gum in a test and see if that’s the issue. 

[jemolian]

There are quite a few posts on solubility of SA already, so depending on your preference, the solvent varies. 

Normally for a 1% SA cream, i use Betaine. For 2%, i use Octyldodecanol with Betaine. 

[jemolian]

@Graillotion

So what are you saying….gives the best feel?  EMT 10….a combination…or Aristoflex AVC?
I had thought I liked the Aristoflex the best.  I am having a tiny issue with the feel created by adding Eumulgin…(see my latest post).

I’ve not tried anionic emulsifiers yet so i’m not too certain about them at the moment. I think for the skin feel wise, i’m trying to figure out from the cost wise point of view. I’m fine with mixing the following: 

• Sepinov + Ultrez (1:1)
• Sepinov + Aristoflex (1:1)
• Aristoflex + (Hydrolyzed) Sclerotium Gum (0.2% or less)

Using any of these combinations should be able to produce a slightly silky skin feel. I’ve not tried the 3rd combo at the moment but based on observation on the Sclerotium Gum, it would also be able to provide such as skin feel. 

Are you aware of any US based re-packers that are selling Emulium Delta MB?

Bought mine from China as per usual, that reseller also has other emulsifiers from Gattefosse. 

Perhaps an alternative would be Lipomulse Luxe (Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-40 Stearate (and) Ceteareth-20)

[jemolian]

When mixing Sepinov with other polymerics Sepinov seem to not standout in terms of texture since it looks to me that it adopts the firmness from Aristoflex and jiggly look from Sepimax. Skin feel wise, you could still feel the Sepinov, if i didn’t observe wrongly. 

[jemolian]

I think depends on the requirements, if there’s no or minimal electrolytes, body vs non-bodying, perhaps: 

• 165 type (Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100 Stearate) for non bodying
• Emulium Delta MB (Cetyl Alcohol (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-75 Stearate (and) Ceteth-20 (and) Steareth-20) for bodying, rich velvet
• Sepinov EMT 10 for polymeric, silky