[Jar]

Well for here in FL, medicinal cannabis was restricted to vapes only, and flower wasn’t allowed. Although, it has been allowed more recently.

[Jar]

I don’t know a whole lot, so take this with a grain of salt. But peg40 Castor oil is a surfactant  and they foam. There may also not be enough BTMS in there, 1.2% seems low to me, you have a lot of oil in there.

[Jar]

@Perry I actually think it was a combination of the rice ferment and the aloe vera juice. I cut the rice ferment in half, eliminated aloe, and took all the extracts and Panthenol down to 0.5%. 

[Jar]

MarkBroussard said:

@Jar:

Yes, with 2% Panthenol + Glycerin-based extracts, you’re going to have a stickly mess in a Toner

I haven’t worked with Panthenol yet, is it generally considered sticky? What would an appropriate level be in a toner?

[Jar]

I didn’t realize that honeyquat was an emulsifier. Tocopherol was added as an anti-oxidant, why would one not be needed in this formula? I like and use a lot of products with rice, and, I do believe it can be substantive. 

But, I mentioned in the title that I was looking to recreate the effects of the product using more naturally derived materials. I don’t need it to be an exact replica.

[Jar]

I am having trouble finding anywhere to buy some of those ingredients, and they wouldn’t work with my goal of using “natural” ingredients

How does this sound?

Water
honeyquat
varisoft eq 65
tocopherol
sodium phytate
Phenoxyethanol
+EOs

I am not sure what to use as a solubilizer, there seem to be very few options. I have read about NatraGem S140 NP, but it doesn’t appear to be available in small quantities.

I should note, I plan to include rice ferment filtrate and hydrolyzed rice protein in my formula.

[Jar]

Hmm. I haven’t tried that product @ngarayeva001 but it looks like there is a lot more in it. I’ll have to do some research on some of those ingredients. The Tonic Lotion doesn’t do a whole lot, but it does do a little and feels nice. 

I wonder how much of these oils are in the product. Wouldn’t that make your hair look greasy?

[Jar]

Thanks for such a great reply @Pharma
I am glad you mentioned Varisoft EQ 65, as I was planning on using that anyways, as I have some available.

[Jar]

Thanks @MarkBroussard You are always helpful! I guess I just searched for rice and didn’t find it that way. derp.

[Jar]

I would not be interested in paying someone to develop a formula for themselves to keep.  :#

[Jar]

@MarkBroussard

Being a powder, will the sodium phytate blend in to the emulsion properly if it is added in cooldown, after the emulsion has formed?

[Jar]

Hydrolyzed rice protein can be damaged by high temperatures and so it is recommended to be added in the cool down phase. At least that is what I had read. 

[Jar]

I used it at 1% and I was pleased with the results.

[Jar]

Thanks for all the feedback. I’ve taken a lot if it into consideration and I think I will be switching the preservative to phenoxyethanol/ethylhexylglycerin, using Ferulic Acid as an antioxidant (derived from rice), and I think I will try Montonov L as an emulsifier with rice bran wax as a thickener.

[Jar]

paoloferino said:

I’m curious with your formulation. In using Ginger Root Extract, does it add color to your emulsion? Or does the extract have any color? I think the wax is making it sticky. 

Actually, the extract has a dark orange coloration, but it doesn’t seem to effect the color of the emulsion. It still comes out very white.

Microformulation said:

Your preservative needs to be stronger. That particular one has some gaps in coverage.

Ascorbic Acid will not be stable in that product also. It will oxidize (likely evident by a color change) fairly quickly.

Oh, interesting. Thank you for pointing that out. I will try omitting the ascorbic acid in my next batch. 

Do you recommend a particular preservative in this case?