[invar]

Here are my findings after testing for a bit.

Commercial SAPDMA conditioner + 8% L-Arginine HCl

• Adding the L-Arginine to the conditioner really thickens it up. After a few days, the test batch broke the little pump bottle I put it in, and it was very hard to get it out of the bottle afterwards. It’s more of a curl cream, really.
• It really does do exactly what I wanted it to do. It clumps hair, keeps it out of my face and kills frizz, while mostly remaining soft to the touch. I love it, honestly I don’t think my hair has ever been this curly and nice.
• If I apply too much, especially on my scalp, it’s a stronger hold but it does look and feel a little bit more like hair gel - less soft, more wet-look. However it rinses out easily, it doesn’t seem to build up.
• I was worried it wouldn’t be a good detangler but it’s fine, really. I had some trouble the first time I used it, but I just wasn’t used to the viscosity. If anything my hair seems to get tangled less.

Just L-Arginine HCl in water

• Dissolving it in just water at 8% or even 33% gives a clear liquid, it doesn’t seem to affect viscosity.
• 8% in water makes a hair spray with a nice hold. Sprayed on dry hair 2 days after washing brings back the curls that the wind swept out. However, it feels and looks like I’ve applied hair gel - it’s no longer soft, and again more wet-look.
• I tried both 8% and 33% on my mustache, which had never had any conditioner in it, to see if it’s fixative function is indeed from interacting with SAPDMA. It didn’t do anything. However, it didn’t seem to do much either if I applied SAPDMA conditioner to my mustache first. I guess it just doesn’t work very well on much thicker hair.

I’ve found a place where I can order SAPDMA, so I think I will try to formulate a SAPDMA+L-Arginine curl cream 🙂

[invar]

Re: stable LGN, thanks, this is very helpful!

Re: Arginine, I never saw it used at this level at all, besides a recommendation on this forum, which is why I am asking about it. I looked into literature but I can’t find anything about its use as a fixative. I don’t understand how it would work in general nor if it could work in a cationic system.

Re: Coco-caprylate: I didn’t add any extra emollients because of all the Arginine. I’m not opposed to silicone ingredients, but the places where I can get ingredients don’t seem to carry them. Also, I don’t shampoo the lengths of my hair and I’m worried that some of them might build up - although, reading on this forum over the past few days, I think I don’t have to worry about that as much as I thought.

[invar]

Thanks for the input!

I bought some L-Arginine HCl for testing. For a first test I just cold mixed 4 grams of it into 46 grams of store-bought conditioner (main surfactant is Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine). So about 8% L-Arginine HCl or 6.6% L-Arginine. The change in viscosity was immediate, it got so thick I could barely stir it. I applied it to my hair as I normally do, about 15 grams spread using a wet detangling brush on wet hair, and leaving it in.

Compared to the same conditioner without the Arginine, I feel it works a little worse as a wet detangler because of how thick it is. However, it does seem to work otherwise as intended - my curls appear stronger and more defined, without the gloss that some other products give to my hair. Is this just from the viscosity?

I will keep testing for a bit, maybe I’m just having a good hair day. I did find a supplier where I can get Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine as a consumer.