[Graillotion]

Maybe the simplest way to explain it might be…….. at your pH, you are paying for GMS SE …. but you’re getting GMS. ????

[Graillotion]

GMS SE is a potassium soap, and functions as a soap, hence why the mfg’s recommend that it be used at higher pH’s. Maybe the rest of the formula can carry it?

If you want something anionic at a low pH, look at SSG.

[Graillotion]

You get full claim value…at any inclusion rate.

[Graillotion]

What makes you say it has a lot???

Are you privy to the formula?

I only looked at the 1st one…and the HA is below the 1% line….so probably typical use rates.

The marketing is clever enough to discuss 5 types of HA….to throw off your cognitive abilities.

I saw nothing there to claim more than claim levels of HA.

It seems to have the typical humectants that do all the work…and get none of the glory. ????

[Graillotion]

I just saw they also had Sodium lactate as well…. which will break a polymeric in a heartbeat as well.

Not sure what level company this is…. but I see beginners destroy their polymeric networks all the time…. without ever realizing it (never test against their ingredient panel). So, if they have a low grade chemist….they might not even realize their polymerics is doing nothing. Sometimes we give people more credit for intellect, then they actually have. ????

[Graillotion]

Clearly the NaPCA is below the 1% line….hence it could easily be .01% and in for just the claim.

Over the years…I have NOT found the value of NaPCA, and when I confer with my peers, they tend to agree with me. (Beyond good claim value…. since it is part of NMF.)

The polymeric is Aristoflex AVC, which is probably one of the most hyper-sensitive polymerics on the market…. so I would assume the inclusion of NaPCA is very very low.

BTW…. you can buy PCA without the Na …. just saying. ????

Aloha

Just for fun…. make a slurry of Aristoflex AVC, and water….. add drops of NaPCA while stirring….till it loses viscosity. I think it will shock at how quickly the steric hinderance let’s go! ????

• This reply was modified 7 months ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Master of Science in Cosmetic Science | UC Online

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[Graillotion]

Sorry can’t help, as my skin is a bit more acidic than yours. ????

TEC is nothing more than an expensive emollient at that pH. ???? (Remind yourself of what it is….and what it is supposed to do.)

[Graillotion]

not familiar with that last line ingredient…. but I have used Sodium Metabisulfite on occasion, and the scent is not soon forgotten. ????

Make a small batch of the formula…leaving out the last line….and see if you still have the odor. (Aka: knockout experiment.)

[Graillotion]

Maybe a couple things to look at:

Many natural colorants are pH dependent. You have included an ingredient that will change pH until it is exhaused….meaning you have induced your own pH drift. Remove that and see it if persists.

Many natural colorants will oxidize with time (and not that much is required). Consider antioxidants. Memba, they only work in the phase they are soluble in, so you might need both a water and lipid soluble one.

Consider packaging as well….often light is your enemy in a situation like this.

[Graillotion]

When you see an INCI like this:

That last grouping is typically (all though possible) not added as individual ingredients. As some of the preservatives that get used by the ‘natural’ folk have ended up on the naughty list. I am not an EU expert…but I do believe that part of that listing requirement…is to post them at the end.

[Graillotion]

Easiest way is to reduce tacky inputs. If you are dealing with G… then see if you can sub some of it for 1,3 propanediol, or butylene glycol.

Otherwise, your other option is to ‘out slippery’ the sticky. Use emollients/esters at such propensity, the slippery aspect prevails.

[Graillotion]

I found it on Amazon. There is no barrier to entry on Amazon.

Based on the reviews, I’d probably not use this as a benchmark. ????

Looks like it comes out of….. India (no comment).

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Thank you….I think I found what I was looking for. I KNEW….it would be all about the money. And the concern was that alcohol for consumption is heavily taxed, and denatured can be sold for much less due to the fact it does not bear much of the tax burden.

However… living on a tropical island in the middle of the Pacific….changes a lot of the variables. I cannot just call up Lab Alley, and have them ship me ethanol due to most everything coming to the island by air. Hence, I can actually buy 190 proof ethanol, taxes and all, at the liquor store for less than I can get the cheap stuff shipped here.

This statement from the FDA link:

“To prevent the ethyl alcohol in a cosmetic from being diverted illegally for use as an alcoholic beverage, it may be “denatured.” This means that it contains an added “denaturant” that makes it undrinkable.”

The way I read that (with an emphasis on the word ‘may’), if I pay the taxes at the retail liquor store, then everyone is happy. If anyone has seen something that contradicts this, please advise me.

Aloha and Thank You.

[Graillotion]

Hawaii USA.

[Graillotion]

I received my samples (WS FO’s) last night. The first one I tried turned by crystal clear water/ethanol/fairy dust….. very milky. I was rather disappointed.

Not a deal breaker…. as I don’t plan to package in clear bottles.

I was advised by my mentor to just use my old standbys (OS FO’s) + SOLUBILISANT LRI …. but I had such a magically short and beautiful LOI….I did not want to mess it up. ????

[Graillotion]

How much is enough? ???? NONE is enough.

Based on the fact that after water they have two industry standard humectants… I’d suspect they went .01% X 5 versions….and came to a rather industry standard .05%. ????

That is an ingredient…..where less is almost always better. (But an ‘ell of a CLAIM ingredient.)

• This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

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[Graillotion]

Response to pH will be directly correlated to the individual. Some can handle higher pH….others cannot. You cannot paint that canvas with a broad brush!

[Graillotion]

Umh…. TEC does not have pH. Typically when ingredients don’t have a measurable pH….they are added to water…and that reading is used. Congratulations !!!! You now know the pH of the water they added. TEC is an ester….the citric is bound…it takes lower pH’s….if you want any of it let go. Any result you got…was likely form other inputs.

Good luck.

[Graillotion]

What I hear you saying is… the knives in this drawer …. are a little sharper than Tom Sawyers friends? ????

[Graillotion]

With all respect you said:

“The mosquito-repelling is done by an essential oil called Eucalyptus Lemon Scented Gum Oil (Eucalyptus citriodora)”

What your intent with that language was….only you know. How a beginner will read that…we all know…..

• This reply was modified 8 months ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Then you already know that Lemon Eucalyptus oil has almost no repelling, other than beyond placebo levels. The essential oil is often mistaken by novices as the same thing as Oil of lemon Eucalyptus, which is it NOT. OLE contains high levels of PMD, which have been proven effective. Lemon Eucalyptus E.O has very negligible amounts of PMD.

You just feed the mommy blogger lore, when you don’t make these distinctions in your post.

[Graillotion]

Back to your original question….let’s call in the expert, Dr Geis…. @PhilGeis Do you see any concerns with heating a preservative containing: Benzyl Alcohol (and) Salicylic Acid (and) Glycerin (and) Sorbic Acid

To a temp of 75C?

PS: Time to buy a pH meter. ????

• This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Ahh…………..

Yes the iscaguard PEG will help. We don’t work in brand names….just INCI.

So I finally looked it up….and it contains phenoxy….which will get the gram -.

Good luck. (Going forward…..tell us what is in things…. we don’t memorize brand names). ????

[Graillotion]

The entire line is weak on Gram - , hence why it is mostly relegated to beginners. Granted you can use them as a starting point… and build off of them….but why bother, when it is simply easier to preserve correctly right out of the gate? The link I sent…addressed the additional version you inquired about.

It actually brings a new set of problems….and that is pH drift with the Gluconolactone.

By the way Vit E has no effect on preservation. It is an antioxidant, not a preservative. And worse yet, at the rate you used it….it is a pro-oxidant vs the desired outcome. In cosmetics….it is quite often the case….that more is worse. The E rate that will be sufficient will be .05% - to .2% if you think your product is old and low efficacy (the darker it is…the more oxidized it is).

• This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.

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