[gordof]

Another Possibility: Sometimes if you Combin Different extracts there can be many side reactions due to the fact that there are several Molukules solved in various extracts that can course reactions. do you get flocculation with the change of color does it stay clear all the time? 

Although it can help to add a complexing agent to see if it is coursed by ions. Just eliminating it from the water does not do the trick because Plant extracts will contain quite a bit of them as well. So maybe add some NaEDTA or something similar to see if that helps? 

[gordof]

Thanks for the Answers. it seems to be difficult to organize some data on skin effectiveness for CBD that is what I found as well. hmm, I will try my supply maybe they have some data for it even if the scientific profoundness is not that good  

[gordof]

I can Suggest Baycusan Types for Spf boosting and Water Resistance. it sPolyurethan and as far as I know they even have data on Biodegradability to avoid the micro Plastic Discussion. 

[gordof]

depends on Preservative use and in general its good to know if you have a ph shift during stability testing 

[gordof]

I want to throw in that it is quite Problematik to Mix Oils and Bentonite or Clay they absorb the oil very intensely and then will not have the Capability to do what they need to do on the skin. You use Clay in an Anti-acne mask because of the fact that the Sebum that is produced by the skin is food for the bacteria that cores the acne and you want to remove that oil from the skin so that the bacteria don’t have enough to eat to grow. although the clay absorbs the Bacteria from the skin if it is already full of oil it can not do that.  

You should be oil-free normally if you add oil to such a product it will only lead to more clay needed to absorb Sebum and Bacteria from the skin. Although The caracole will do the same as the clay so you put in 2 ingredients for the same effect. of course, if you want it to be black you can use 0,5 % of Carcole to get it black and let the rest be done by the clay it is more cost-efficient I would guess. 

Adding tee Trea oil you can do that in small concentrations to get the claims out of it or the Indication that people expect out of it. 

Although you need to be very careful with the Therm “Acne” acne is a medical condition and therefore you can not make a Cosmetic product with that claim it would be a medical product. 

I would suggest a Formulation like : 

Water: 50 %
xantan gum 0.4-0.9 %
Kaolin / Clay 10%
Glycerin 3-5 %
0.3% Tea Tree oil 
Cetyl alcohol 2-4%
Emulsifier for Rinsoff quality (Something that is very good as a self-emulsifing system) 
if you wanna use honey you can but it can lead to Product Issues over Different years of Collection due to changes in wax and Suger Content. 

Conservation. ( don’t use Potasiumsorbate you need too much of t and it will make some faces red after occlusive application for several minutes)

hope that helps.

Tobias 

[gordof]

oh sorry misunderstood that  i was so irritated by that 110 i never thought of the F scale for that 

[gordof]

hi There 

Heating Water to 110 °C is literally impossible. your water will evaporate a lot in the Lab it may not be a problem but in the Production, it will be. 

For the wax / Oil phase I would suggest you switch at least some of the Candelilla wax to a more soft Butter or wax. Candelila Wax is very hard and the pick-up is very difficult it is normally used in sticks and stuff to make them hard. you can use a Shea Butter or a Cacobutter for a more soft pick-up. Although I would try to use some Liquid oils to get a better spreadability. 

I personally would get rid of candelilla completely and use a bee wax or a vegan alternative for that if you need to stay vegan. I am not the biggest expert for pomade but I would although may use some Cetearyl alcohol for Structure (3-5%). 

Another question for me is the PEG 40 Amount that is used as far as I remember the amonsensyl is already a self-emulsifing system that is capable of “emulsifying” quite some oil phases and I don’t see the necessity of adding even more Emulsifier / Solubilizer to the system with PEG 40 and 10 % seams a little much if you need some additional Emulsification. 

For Preservative I would go for Sodiumbenzoat and Kaliumsorbat Combination at a Ph of 5.0 the propanediol will not be sufficient I would guess. 

[gordof]

Some ingredients that can reduce Takines of Xanthan gum depending on formulation are
-Acacia Collagen (Lipoid)
-SUCCINOGLYCAN (Reozahn SH Solvey)
-As mentioned by Abdullah gum Arabic

Adding some Oils that have a good long time Spreading curve

[gordof]

hi, there it can happen because of the may Ions that are contained in the Hectorite. if you look into the Specification they will give you some information i would guess. maybe you need to capture them in your formulation with an EDTA or something equally Complexing so that you don’t get black Iron or something similar. 

Tobias 

[gordof]

Do you mean a mask that is bubbling up by itself after application? 

if so it is a O2 enriched raw material INCI Perfluorohexane (and) Perfluorodecalin (and) Pentafluoropropane  name: Fiflow® BB 61 From the “the innovation company”

Example of making a Product 5433cs-walnut-bubbling-mask-scrub.pdf (theinnovationcompany.fr)

The Raw material is very expensive and Production and Packaging can be tricky as far as I remember.

But Products are very interesting if they work. That’s the only supplier I know of that can deliver something like that.

HOpe that helbs. 

Tobi 

[gordof]

silicon will deposit as far as it is not already solubilized by your surfactant if it deposits it will Stay on the Hair better. 

For Cationics the more you rinse the more will be washed off. 

That’s at least my understanding of Solubility and Adhesion on the hair.

If someone has a deeper understanding interested to hear it.  

[gordof]

Hmm well, I guess it’s likely that you can rinse Cationic Products from your hair with water alone due to the fact that they are in general soluble in water. The amount that gets taken off is not completely as we can see in the different tests that show that cationic polymers in shampoo help with combability. but I would guess the longer you Rinse off the more is taken off. 

for Silikons that is different silicons will not be washed off easily with just water, you can try that by putting the silicon on the back of your hand and look how long, it will take until all the silicone is rinsed off. It’s the “big” issue with silicon in hair care Products it can lead to a build-up if used too much. 

[gordof]

You can use Isopropyl alcohol for a Body Spray at least in Europe. The smell is more intense than with Ethanol but its cheaper and some internet “analysis Tools” for Cosmetic Formulations rank Isopropoylalcohl better than Ethanol 

Just be aware of the Concentration and Flammability of the Spry if you put in too much you may need to have to put a flammable Singe on it depending on the country you sell it and Production needs to be Safe for Explosions. 

[gordof]

chrystad72 said:

Gordof said:

just one additional hint. 

If you make a W/O emulsion it is good to incorporate the Conservation System into the Water Phase otherwise the phase that needs to be prevented from forming micro bacterial contamination will probably don’t have enough of the material incorporated. Later added “Waterphase” to a W/O emulsion will make new Droplets and therefore do not interact with the other water droplets in the system. if they would do your emulsion would not be stable and you would see coalescence and Phase separation. so you only will get the dissociation part into the water droplets and that can sometimes not be enough. You can Properly reduce conservation if you add it to the water phase directly.

PS optiphen Plus is very active within the Emulsifier layer and therefore can be Problematic for Stability.

Hello! I hope Im not derailing this thread too much but just wanted to ensure Im not misunderstanding this comment. Is the suggestion to add Optiphen into the water phase and then combine the oil phase? Apologies in advance if Im misunderstanding this. Thanks!

hi yes with w/O emulsions you should add the conservation system to the water phase previously of Emulsification. The Theory is that after building the Emulsion if you add other water-soluble ingredients or in this case actives that need to be active in the water to protect the water phase from microbes they will just form new droplets within your Emulsion and not be incorporated into the other droplets even if you are homogenizing. Of course, theory and reality are not always 100 % correct but in general, if you add them afterward they will mainly be separated from the water or solubilized in the Oil Phase. Therefore only a small amount is dissociating into the water droplets and this may not be enough to do the job which leads to a higher necessary amount of conservation system to increase dissociation equilibrium. 

[gordof]

hi there 

Well, it is somehow difficult. Normally if a supplier Writes down an Exp date for an ingredient and you are not an expert or have the possibility to retest the product you should not use it any longer. 

In general, if you can confirm that the Specification of the Raw material still fits ( means no Colore change / Smell / Microbes / Density / Refraction whatever the Specification gives you) you can use it for another 3 months. 

Practical Approach:

For oils, I would say you notice if they are still ok or not if they smell ransom they have gone and you need to get new ones.  Of course, you need to take into consideration that your product’s long time stability will be more challenged with an older oil.

For Tensieds Concentration of the Tensied is not as important yes a non-Water Product is more stable than a water one but most are self-preserving so normally no problem there if the coloration does not change.

The only real issue in my opinion is emulsifiers. you do not see if they are still ok or not but the Formulation may not be stable if they are too old so if you can not confirm the Specifications of them throw them away. 

For Cetiol Ultimate it can start to smell if not stored correctly ( gets a sour smell). I guess its because of the very small chain length 

[gordof]

ph for sorbic acid needs to be below 5.5 if you have a high ph and your customer doesn’t mind using Paraben it’s the most efficient and safe one. if they do just use Phenoxyethanol around 1 % should be fin than I would say.

[gordof]

hi There 

Why do you need the Ph if the Product is not easy to measure because of the low water concentration? you can just not include ph measuring. If you still want to do mote go by a dilution of 1/10 to measure that. 

For the Specific Gravity, you can just measure the Volume of a beaker that is completely field with water at 20′ °C and then fill the same beaker Air free with your Product and Weight it is not as Accurate as a Gardner SPG cup but it will give you enough information for filling the right amount. 

 

[gordof]

hi there 

If Slip means Conditioning your second Formulation will be Preforming much better. In your first formulation, you did not add any Conditioning agents that will stay on the Hair after rinse. The Oils may be helping a little to give the Shine you want but in the end conditioning Agents like the Cetrimonium Chloride is necessary for good and long-lasting Conditioning after the rinse.

[gordof]

The smell can be a problem with lactic acid. especially in a face product if the Perfum is not strong enough. 

The advantage of LActic acid is more skin-friendly and there is some evidence that it helps against microbes. 

[gordof]

hi,

HotAct is a Vanillyl Butyl Ether.  In My Experience it does not work with non-water-containing formulations it needs the water to be activated on the skin. I don’t know why it is but I made some Oils based products and I encounter the same problem. If you add water it gets warm immediately. you can try if you see the same effect after Rins of from your scrub. it should give some heating effect after washing off depending on the concentration you used.

Tobias  

[gordof]

hi Jake 

you can have a look at Frike Group in Switzerland (Frike Cosmetics and Aerosol) CMO and CMO development. 

FRIKE GROUP Corporate Movie - YouTube

If that is what you are looking for you can contact me and I can give you further information.

Kind Regards 

Tobias 

[gordof]

hi Do you mean minoxidil? Melatonin does not have any effect on hair growth as far as knowing (skin Pigment) the only scientifically based raw material I know of is minoxidil?

if so Solubility of minoxidil is not very good in the water.
Normally it is solubilized in Alcoholic Formulations to increase Blood flow and to Transport it to the Hair Folic. Doing it without alcohol but with another Pharmacytacaly (if you make that you are in a Drug space so Pharma at least in Europe ) relevant Raw material is difficult. you can Solubilize it in Different oils but it is really bad to treat scalp and hair with that. 

Sorry, I don’t think there is anything already Proofen out there other than alcoholic solutions and in Pharma, you need to Make a study to show that you are at least as good as the current marked Product. 

It can be a mistake but I would say there is a reason way you only find alcoholic solutions in the market. so far the costs for another delivery system to test and register with authorities will be very high.

[gordof]

just one additional hint. 

If you make a W/O emulsion it is good to incorporate the Conservation System into the Water Phase otherwise the phase that needs to be prevented from forming micro bacterial contamination will probably don’t have enough of the material incorporated. Later added “Waterphase” to a W/O emulsion will make new Droplets and therefore do not interact with the other water droplets in the system. if they would do your emulsion would not be stable and you would see coalescence and Phase separation. so you only will get the dissociation part into the water droplets and that can sometimes not be enough. You can Properly reduce conservation if you add it to the water phase directly.

PS optiphen Plus is very active within the Emulsifier layer and therefore can be Problematic for Stability.

[gordof]

it is not problematic in a way of health hazard or anything but it can lead to Irritation at the eyes and Teardrops due to the salt content. 

[gordof]

hi 

I would say that clays/Kaolin are a various mixture of different Chemical Bondings depending on the digging sight there can be various impurities like CaCO3 or Sulphers, even if the main Part is Kaolin. Some of the Clays you can get (not sure about the ones you described) have parts of lime (CaCO3) incorporated. They can react with acids and set free CO2 and therefore lead to Foaming of the Formulation. there is although the possibility that other Parts of the clay can make an Acid Reaction due to the very high surface area of the Clay the Reaction energy can be Reduces maybe setting free some more Smelly parts like sulfur (you can check if the Gas that is set free is Flamabell or not. if so and it smells like rotten eggs it is properly Supherhydrogen that is set free.

In this case, I would check with the supplier and ask if they can give some advice about it. They Propoply have tested this scenario or you will not be the first one to do so they may have a solution for it you can go for. Be aware that if the gas is flammable it is a high risk for Production with this grade of Clay.

Otherwise, you can just switch suppliers and see if you can find one that does not have this problem like obviously the Pink clay you have.