[Ghita37]

Hello @jemolian, hope you are well today I appreciate very much your help and effort in making things clear for me  
Can you kindly confirm that i understood you well as i want to make progress.

1-oK so sum up based on what you said, the survey will help me determine if  there is a demand for my cleansing oil from my market( target audience) correct? And questions in the survey must go from general to specific right? What other ways can i use to gauge there is a demand for my cleansing oil aside from survey that are not expensive?  
Then you said Or choose one your brand concept stands for.Im not sure i understand what you mean ” choose one my brand stands for? 

2-This is just an analogy and the point for me is to understand: 

• Preference in product; why oil vs balm ( so you mean through the survey i should see if ppl have a preference for oils over balms and vice versa . and i guess i will know they have a preference for one over the other by asking questions through the survey, so its up to me to analyze their answer to determine which is is the most demanded from the girls i would interview thanks to my survey right> so if i interview 30 girls and all say we use cleansing oil then no need to do a balm and vice versa right? 
• Potential pattern & frequency of product usage ( WHY IS this important Jemolian please ?)
• Global or local events affecting product usage and sales due to user requirements ( can you pls give an example? )

You need to look and interpret based on what they mention in the survey as they can help you to prioritize products for development and launch based on demographic demands. So here you mean i should analyze their answers and based on that decide on which product i will develop: a balm or an oil correct?

3-You said i can target Gen z if my product fits their needs and budget.But we know in marketing that by trying to sell to everyone you end up selling to none. 

Thank you @jE@jemolian for your help Im taking notes and i feel less lots now 

[Ghita37]

Thank you @MarkBroussard for your help I was just trying to share as much info as possible. 

[Ghita37]

Dear @jemolian many points you mentioned that id like to discuss again as im still feeling lost her  

[Ghita37]

Dear @jemolian many points you mentioned that id like to discuss again as im still feeling lost her  

1-You said products are normally developed for ppl who require or demand them.So how will i know makeup users will demand or require  cleansing oil? 

2-You said so i need to know what my products solve: 
Cleansing oil,what does it solve: are you saying i should ask my target : hey what is your expectation of a cleansing oil? as a makeup user  what would a cleansing oil solve for you? ( i don’t feel these questions are good because what if they don’t use a cleansing oil in the first place?) 
Yu said i can ask them: do you use an oil based cleanser? doesn’t this sound a bit biased? instead can i be general and asking: what do you cleanse/wash yourself with? is it in morning or evening that u use a cleanser? she might use it the night only and in the morning just water then her toner etc. So is it okay to ask: what do you wash your face with to remove makeup? 

3-you said a person may choose to use a cleansing balm for the convenience it offers vs an oil. 
You also said during covid demand for balm decreased then it picked up again once restrictions were lifted-is it only for balm or cleansing oils as well? 

4-you said its up to me if i want to develop a cleansing product if i see any need.Ok so how do i see any need? Once again this means talking to makeup users and seeing what they cleanse their skin with right? (answer number 1 above) 
I just don’t want to make a product that no one at the end will want so before making i should be asking. 

Im appreciative of the help yo offer  

[Ghita37]

Dear @jemolian. Im glad i crossed your path here as well.Im so happy to have discovered this forum as i was doing everything on my own ad struggling a lot, asking myself tons of questions and never moving the needle forward in my journey.But with you all now i feel better though im still worried but at least i have some answers. 

[Ghita37]

Hello @Pattsi, thank you so much for asking all these questions! These are te questions i have been asking myself but never knew how to answer them.

1-you asked me if i know how many are TEAM CLEANSER and how many are TEAM MICELLAR WATER or any other cleanser.My question to you is how am i supposed to know that?You will tell ask people.So here you mean ask my target audience then( the makeup user, aged between 28-40, who works etc etc) .Where do i ask her? online through social media, facebook groups, or offline? and offline where do i find her? Maybe i can find her at beauty center or a spa, maybe at a dermatologist? How about asking also dermatologst here : what do makeup user use the most to wash/cleanse their face? what do you prescribe to them? do they wash everyday( i mean if they use makeup the naswer is yes! ) So is this a good way to know TEAM CLEANSER vs TEAM ANY OTHER CLEANSER? Or you have other suggestions please?  

2-Love your question Pattsi of why the USA and not Saudi, Egypt, UAE, etc? The usa with only a pop of 350 million ppl consumed in 2018 89 billion usd worht of cosmetics vs china with about 4 times as many consumers consumed the equivalent of 58 billion.So this means the consum[tion speed in the usa seems to be higher and faster, with the quarter of china’s population they consume more than the chinese people. Also the female population within  28-40 is at around 40 million ppl.

Saudi is also on my radar with half the population of the country being made of female with approximatly 5 million women between 28-40 yrs old. 

Does my choice make sense? 

3-gen z now age iRANGE IS BETWEEN 18-23. You said if they are allowed to be loud. I think in the USA by 18 yrs old ( i studied in the usa) kids are working, independent and even look for places to liVE and start hustling which is awesome. So why would they need permission to be loud on social media? 
As per Morocco, id say the same gen z are digitally connected ( if i may say it this way) everyone is focused on their phone checking trends, talking, socializing, commenting, posting, sharing. 

4-you said there is one group i might have overlooked which is: girls who have to live night life. What do you mean exactly? You mean girls who work for instance in night clubs as bartenders? cus thats the only thing i can think of. And you said girls who might not have to remove their makeup, well they will ahve to remove it at some point even if they work at night the next day to put a new layer of makeup they must get rid of the previous one.

5-you said cleansing oil is a semi bg bottle, isnt the capacity of a cleansing oil always 100 ml? i think its good to start small cus offering huge sizes for a brand ppl still dont know is a risk. 

6- also my main important question is: ok so how do i know if i should do cleansing oil or any other cleanser? we said survey/ we said talk to ppl like what i said in answer number 1 above when you asked me about finding out TEAM CLEANING OIL vs TEAM ANY OTHER CLEANSER. 

7- yes i wouldnt mind posting some of my bP , what part would you like to see to check if im on the right track or not

Thank you so much Pattsi.By the way where are you from? You said Misr ( egypt) and i never heard an english speaker say Misr but they all say Egypt Anyway its nice to meet you here

[Ghita37]

@Jemolian you said you conduct product review, so you do that before taking them to market and testing them there? 

1-So if i want to emulate your methods and check my cleansing oil performance, how do you suggest me to do it? In your case you said ingredient list review and samples test are conducted with your staff, i’m a solo-preneur here, so to whom can i give my cleansing oil for sample testing please? 

Also to that same mentor i once asked him what he thinks of surveys and he said this is the least honest and trustworthy source of information as they are so BIASED. I dont understand why they can be biased?In my my survey i asked  questions such as: what do you look for when buying a cleanser?( then i would list few options and they would pick the right one for them) -> so i don’t know where is the bias here? I see in your answer that in your evaluation you also gather feedback related to price, smell, packaging .I didnt think of packaging:)
So for product performace you only do reviews on ingredients and do sample tests with your staff only? and then what happens if their answers are satisfactory? you go straight to the market and start promoting?  And if their feedback is not satisfactory, what do you do? 
Could you please shed light on this important point? 

Thanks 

[Ghita37]

Hi @jemolian, i cant thank you enough with all the valuable input you shared here.Im grateful to each and everyone in this forum who keeps on helping me and lighting the path for me.

Jemolian i made a mistake which is a marketing one.I designed the products and then i started looking for the target audience.I know it should have been done the other way around.So right now to stop wasting time i intend to talk to people face to face and talk to derms and ask them: what challenges do people face when they cleanse their skin? what is their skincare routine like? whats the part they hate when it comes to cleansing and why?  what are they actually washing their face with?  how does their skin feel like after? ( my questions should be focused on the products i intend to make) because otherwise they will tell me about other things that i’m not going to develop now, do you agree here? Based on their feedback i will adjust the products. So if all makeup users that i would interview tell me we dont use cleansing oil to remove our makeup then okay my cleansing oil wont be a good product to continue working on. 

If you ask me the products i’m developing and for which i already placed orders to import to ingredients id say: sunscreen,face scrub, cleansing oil. So i should have first asked people and see what are their problems then dev a product based on that.But its a lesson i learned for the next line i will create in the future. 

Also i used to have a business mentor but things didn’t click well.He would ask me: what problems do your three products solve ( sunscreen, face scrub, cleansing oil) and i would tell him: 

cleansing oil: skin feels less irritated as opposed to using a cleansing milk which relies on a cotton .Cleansing in itself is vital especially for makeup users( because this is my target audience) so cleansing is a must otherwise problems can arise because of a lack of cleansing are: clogs pores leading to acne and pimples, drier skin or oilier skin, eczema, So to me cleansing save you a lot of time and money in the future because you are preventing your skin from getting sick later and then investing a lot of money to buy products to cure it.
 
So why an oil cleanser? as i said oil is more gentle than water based cleanser as a first step for someone who wears makeup even for non makeup users using a cotton pad and putting it on the skin can feel a bit irritating but oils just glide just like balms. with water based i feel that you have to exert more pressure on your skin to completely remove the makeup or sunscreen or whatever is on your skin.Do you agree?

Then comes the question why using a cleansing oil and not a cleansing balm?( because the target might ask me that; why should i use your oil and not buy me a balm)? so id say a balm is takes more time, less hygienic and not very convenient to use on the eye area and eyelashes if you wear mascara. do you think its good ? Then why using my oil? id say rich in ingredients that are non comedogenic, gentle emulsifier that wont irritate your skin that need lots of care.But these are features and people don’t care about features they care about benefits.So here i get stuck alone in this. 

face scrub solves the problem of skin dullness, good at promoting fast cell turnover, . He said skin dullness is not a problem, it is a consequence of something that happened.So i tried to figure out and whatever i would say would never be the right answer. 

But im still not comfortable with my answers.Also as a marketing expert that you are in the field of cosmetics, do you consider dullness, skin irritation, bad blood flow to be problems? Because this mentor would tell me these are not problems and id say: of course these are problems for our audience and hed say: you should think as a business person not as your audience. 

Could you kindly shed some light into what i said and tell me if im completely off track ?

Thank you 

[Ghita37]

Hi @Squinny- thank you so much for your help in this matter as well.I already messaged them and they asked me to ask for a quotation.
Warm regards  

[Ghita37]

@MarkBroussard, thank you for the rectification.Though would vitamin c be a good addition? 

Thanks Mark  

[Ghita37]

Dear friends. 
1-I was asking myself something an thought about sharing this with you?
Do you recommend adding AHA ( even the most gentle  one)  in the cleansing oil so its acting as a cleanser and an exfoliant? If yes i guess it cant be used near the eyes areas or on the lips?

2- What should i do so my cleansing oil doesn’t leave a film on the skin once its rinsed off and what should i do to prevent it from causing the vision to become foggy/blurry? What ingredients are responsible for these sensations? 

3-the main difference between a cleansing oil and a oil is the emulsifier.If i cleanse my makeup with any carrier oil it will remove it but the cleansing oil thanks to emulsifier will remove debris and excess dirt do you agree? so we can say that within the cleansing oil there are two steps: first step is to use the oil on the face to dissolve everything there and then the second step is rinsing everything thats left by adding water to the oil, so you clean everything altogether.So in that case no need to use a water-based cleanser cus when water is added its like using a water-based cleanser, is this correct? 

I appreciate everything from you and im grateful  

[Ghita37]

Thanks a lot dear Mark  

[Ghita37]

Hey Mark, i appreciate your reply on this point. 
Argan oil is available, i also have rose oil, i have macadamia, jojoba, sunflower, almond, sesame, prickly pear seed oil, apricot, and others. 

[Ghita37]

Id like to share with you my thoughts on the target audience and would like you to guide me here as all of you have more experience than i do

@Pattsi told me to work on the following information: 

-what states will you be selling mainly: 
- how big is 30-40 female population in that area
- average incomes, how much they’re willing to pay for your cleansing oil.
- competitors
- alternative products 
- which ingredient is a no no, which ingredient will be your main star in case you will put out other products.
- …
- …
- …
- …
These details may help you narrow down your choice of ingredients in your formula

My answers: 
States : Ill start with Morocco and then expand to the USA . 
age: i said 25/40 yrs old.Why did choose this age bracket? I told myself at this age people have money to spend and live comfortably.I wanted to target GEN Z ( ppl born between 1997-2010) but i dont know if they have a huge purchasing power. Then i told myself ok lets stick to the 25-40 yrs old ( which maybe is too vague ) 

So why 25? She has a bachelor’s degree at least, she has been working or hustling in her own business for the past 6 years so she must have a source of monthly income.She works at an office whence the need to put makeup on and the need to remove it the night before she sleeps. 
-How big is the 25/40 yrs old in my area ( morocco) ( the usa will be for after but you can advice please, id highly appreciate that) .So there are 4 160 000 women in Morocco aged between 25-40 yrs old. I guess i should start with my city. 

Im from Rabat, the capital city of morocco.Here is the data i found.
In Rabat there are in total 882 079 women . 
In Rabat there are 195 000 women aged between 30-44 yrs old. 

-average income: 400 euros
-Net monthly income for people working within a govt agency: 800 euros/month in Morocco
-in the private sector, the minimum income salary per month is at 450 euros/months. Then you have higher salaries for people with managerial positions. For instance a product manager( we are talking private sector) can have 1250 euros/month at the beginning of his career an 3000 euros /month at the end of his career. 

-people with managerial positions can score even a 4000 euros a month. 
-the girl im targeting is single. why single? well single women tend to wear makeup maybe more than married women. she lives with her family, so whatever money she earns is for her and she belongs to the middle/uppwer crust of society. 

-alternative products: there are cleansing oils in phamarcies here from french brands. Let me share with you two with their inci list. There are also micellar water, there are also milk cleansers, gel cleansers etc. Since im targeting the makeup user, so an oil based makeup in de riguer followed by a water based cleanser. 

Uriage cleansing oil :
AQUA (WATER, EAU) ● GLYCERIN ● SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE ● CAPRYLYL/CAPRYL GLUCOSIDE ● PEG-7 GLYCERYL COCOATE ● SODIUM COCOYL GLUTAMATE ● SODIUM COCOAMPHOACETATE ● PARFUM (FRAGRANCE) ● LAURETH-2 ● PEG/PPG-120/10 TRIMETHYLOLPROPANE TRIOLEATE ● CITRIC ACID ● SODIUM BENZOATE ● SODIUM CHLORIDE ● POLYQUATERNIUM-10 ● COCO-GLUCOSIDE ● GLYCERYL OLEATE ● SODIUM ACETATE

Avene cleansing oil: 
AVENE THERMAL SPRING WATER (AVENE AQUA). GLYCERIN. WATER (AQUA). HYDROGENATED STARCH HYDROLYSATE. DISODIUM COCOAMPHODIACETATE. DECYL GLUCOSIDE. POLYSORBATE 20. SODIUM CHLORIDE. CETEARETH-60 MYRISTYL GLYCOL. AQUAPHILUS DOLOMIAE EXTRACT. ARGININE. CITRIC ACID. COCO-GLUCOSIDE. EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/PALM OIL AMINOPROPANEDIOL ESTERS. GLYCERYL OLEATE. GLYCINE. HYDROGENATED VEGETABLE GLYCERIDES CITRATE. SIMMONDSIA CHINENSIS (JOJOBA) SEED OIL (SIMMONDSIA CHINENSIS SEED OIL). SODIUM BENZOATE. TOCOPHEROL. TRISODIUM ETHYLENEDIAMINE DISUCCINATE

Laroche posay: 
 Aqua/water, glycerin, sucrose, sodium laureth sulfate, coco-betaine, sodium chloride, citric acid, niacinamide, parfum/fragrance, PEG-75 shea butter, glycerides, polysorbate 20, PPG-5-ceteth-20, sodium benzoate, sodium hydroxide, Vitreoscilla fermen shower cleansing oil:

Bioderma cleansing oil: 

Aqua/​Water/​Eau, Glycerin, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Sodium Cocoamphoacetate, Lauryl Glucoside, Coco-Glucoside, Glyceryl Oleate, Citric Acid, PEG-90 Glyceryl Isostearate, Fragrance (Parfum), Mannitol, Polysorbate 20, Xylitol, Laureth-2, Rhamnose, Niacinamide, Fructooligosaccharides, Tocopherol, Hydrogenated Palm Glycerides Citrate, Lecithin, Ascorbyl Palmitate

Can you guys please tell me if these oils ingredients are good because im studying all the oils here and want to do something different, something designed for sensitive skins and that will remove makeup and debris. 

Thank you 

[Ghita37]

Mark if i want to add cucumber oil or coffee oil to the formula you gave me, would that be good? Cucumber oil because its non greasy and it can be good for acne, for dry skin, and is a quick drying oil. Whence me thiking about adding it.

Coffee oil because coffee is antioxidant, promote better blood flow,
Im trying to use the vertue of nature as much as possible. 

What do you say?

[Ghita37]

Hello @MarkBroussard, thank you so much for your reply dear  

Yes i have Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides  
I love your formula here, it looks so simple and to the point. So no need to aadd things such as vitamin c and hyaluronic acid or green tea extract? Also i have one tiny concern here which is olive oil, wont it clog pores of acne prone skins or oily skins? 

After doing a bit of research on cleansing oils( DHC, bobbi brown, josie maran, Boscia, ) i saw that for the dhc this is what people said: this caused breakouts in my skin, someone else said i had 3 zits, another one said pimples, another girl said it leaves my skin oily( so i don’t know if olive oil is the culprit here, i checked it has a comedo rating of 2 , someone else said skin started to purge.The reason why I’m mentioning the DHC oil is because you said i should put olive oil, and I’m worried people complain about it and say it caused purging or pimples or zits and this hurts my new brand. .When i checked the ingredients deck of DHC oil, here is what  i found:

Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Caprylic/​Capric Triglyceride, Sorbeth-30 Tetraoleate, Pentylene Glycol, Phenoxyethanol, Tocopherol, Stearyl Glycyrrhetinate, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Oil

Also i dont have  Sorbeth 30 Tetraoleate. Can i mix polysorbate 80 and Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate? ( the latter being very good for senstive skins, but i dont know if it cleanses well,) 

@squinny, thanks a lot for showing me MSR, but they are located in Bangkok and it might take a lot of time to receive the ingredients. 

Thank you so much to all of you here:) 

 

[Ghita37]

HI @Squinny, thank you for your contribution as well. Could you please tell me why i should have a look at the MSR cleansing oil, i might have been confused dear  

I was following your thread on oil polarity, so how is this important for us formulators in delivering results? if 

Also can you guys please tell me if these emulsifiers are safe, non irritating and whether i should use any one them? Also is it possible to mix 2 emulsifier

stearic acid 
Ceteareth-25
glyceryl Stearate
CETEARETH-20
Cetearyl Alcohol
Cetearyl Glucoside
Lauryl Glucoside
Polyglyceryl-2
Dipolyhydroxystearate(peg 30)
Polyglyceryl-3 Dicitrate/Stearate
Sodium Stearoyl Glutamat
Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate)

Is sorbeth 30 a good choice as an eye makeup removing emulsifier? 

Im based in Morocco and ordering ingredients takes a lot of time.Is someone here based in Europe for instance to show me good suppliers of cosmetic ingredients( fruits enzymes, emulsifiers, oils( cucumber, coffee). 

Thank you all for your never-ending help and guidance.It means a lot to me and i feel less lonely in the process of developing my products. 

[Ghita37]

Thank you so much @Graillotion for your help and support here. 

[Ghita37]

Hello @MarkBroussard, thank heaps for your help.You always guide me and take me to the right path.So when you suggest that i develop an oil that is similar to DHC do you mean that this one is considered one of the best on the market worldwide, is this the reason why you want me to make one like it? 

When you say: Using products highly regarded by consumers and reviewers as development models is a good way to learn how to formulate superior products. 
So here you mean by doing like the best ones in the market this will teach me how to develop product of high standards? 

Thank you once again 

[Ghita37]

A question i forgot to you:) 
Are cleansing oils better suited at removing eye makeup as opposed to cleansing balm.I read about these two a lot and this is why i wanted to start with a cleansing oil because i read in many articles that they are better at dissolving mascara, eyeshadow and lipstick than balms.
What is the view of the experts here on this point? 

I was thinking to myself : ummm If both cleansing oils and balms exist its for a reason , what is it that oils do that balms don’t and vice versa? Otherwise why would formulators come up with a cleansing oil and cleansing balms.Both are for a specific target who is looking for something. If i create a for instance a sunscreen that is tinted and a sunscreen that is invisible its because one creates the effect of wearing makeup and the other doesn’t and i created the tinted one because i saw that people don’t want to wear makeup but instead want to wear spf and protect themselves all the while looking like they are wearing foundation. so same for cleansing oils and balms, why did chemists came up with cleansing oils, i’m sure they didn’t mix ingredients and Hallelujah they had an oil, they knew what they were doing and knew they wanted a cleansing oil. 

Are cleansing balm more fastidious t use than cleansing oils? Are cleansing oils more messy than balms? Are cleansing oils better at removing mascara because lets face it, how am i going to apply that tiny scoop of balm in my eyelashes whereas with the oil i can just pump a tiny bit and put it on my lashes?
Also balm its not very hygienic cus lets scoop out a dime-sized dollop for the cheeks and then for the forehead and then chin and then eyes, so i assume i will have to scoop out maybe twice and fingers wont be clean the second time i do it. 

Just trying to figure out out loud with you all how to advertise my cleansing oil? This cleansing oil will be OURS not just mine  <3  

Thank you all for the love and support here 

[Ghita37]

Dear Graillotion, 

Thank you so much for your efforts and continued support. 
1-you said cosmetics are all about marketing.I agree 100% but if the product is good, then it starts to market for itself,people talk about it and encourage others to buy it.Fir the first time when you sell a product i understand that marketing helps but will it help the second time if the first time people were not satisfied with the product? Even Pattsi said that some influencers put out lousy cosmetics with captivating stories yet the product just failed and others put out stupendous products with no marketing and succeed. How would you please explain this phenomenon? 

2-so the story based on what you said is about the star ingredient in that cleansing oil for instance right? But when i go to competing brands and check for instance their cleansing oil. Can you please have a look at the DHCCARE website, its a Japanese brand and their cleansing oil is famous.
https://www.dhccare.com/deep-cleansing-oil.html&nbsp;

I don’t see any story here about the oil, could you please tell me where it is? 

3-I created the product first and now i will have to think about the story.So since i have 3 products in my line( cleansing oil, spf, face scrub) this means i have to come with 3 stories right? and also mention why the target will feel better in their life after purchasing these 3 products. 

4-Also id like to show you the emulsifiers that i have available, could you tell me if these are safe and non irritating? 
stearic acid 
Ceteareth-25
glyceryl Stearate
CETEARETH-20
Cetearyl Alcohol
Cetearyl Glucoside
Lauryl Glucoside
Polyglyceryl-2
Dipolyhydroxystearate(peg 30)
Polyglyceryl-3 Dicitrate/Stearate
Sodium Stearoyl Glutamat
Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate)

5-Are cleansing oils W/O or O/W emulsions?From my understanding they are W/O. 

This is a lot of knowledge here and im grateful to all of you to contribute to it here:) 

[Ghita37]

Hey Pattsi,
 thanks a lot for your input.

1-When you say the cleansing oil will go down the drain unless it is formulated to leave a film after rinsing off.Thats actually a common complain from a lot of people saying that once they wash theyr face the cleasning oil leaves a film and the skin feels greasy.sO what would bt e ingredients guilty for creating that film on the skin? 

2- Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil**, Polysorbate-80**, Polysorbate-20**, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil**, Argania Spinosa (Argan) Kernel Oil*, Citrus Grandis (Pomelo Grapefruit) Seed Oil**, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil**, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil**, Tocopherol, Sucralose**

You gave me this formula as an example.So are you trying to say that brands use the cheap oils in high dosage( sunflower for instance) and expensive oils are used in small dose like argan, safflower, grapeseeD.
Also if im correct ( kindly confirm) in your inci list you sent in order of concentration, sunflower is the product with the highest dosage, followed by the emulsifiers then safflower and the rest? 

3- you said argan oil here is the star ( but lets face it, we are misrepresenting the customers since argan oil is used in low concentration, the customer foesnt get any benefit of argan oil they get the beenfits of sunflower and the emulsifiers, correct? 

4- when you said i will never know the concetration of the other oils ( argan, grapeseed, safflower, etc) and they can be in can be 0.0001 - 0.1 or maybe 1 each.is there a rule for that? i mean after the first oil in the list, anything that comes after is that low you mean? 

5-you said some influencers put out low quality product and compelling stories yet the product failed, why is that? 

6-You can have 3 or 10 whatever you like, just that the main carrier oil is cheap, easily sourced, stable and have the texture your customers like, your may want to skip mineral oil tho.  
So here you are saying i should make sure the main carrier oil should be cheap, in that case argan oil as the main carrier oil would not be a good choice since its expensive, right? and so if i take the main carrier oil as sthg cheap, the other oils can be of the “expensive” category and these are the oil i should craft the story around right? ( i mean out of the the other expsnive oils i pick just 1 and create a story for it, right??0

Thank you Pattsi for your input and recommendations, im expanding my knowledge some more  

[Ghita37]

Dear @Graillotion, you said its hard to market things you dont believe in and this is why cosmetics formulators dont have their own line.So how come there are succesful brands in cosmetics, does this mean brands lie to their customers and the succeess is not in the product or the formulation but in: knowing the target audience, their pain point, crafting a compelling brand story and having a social media strategy? i always thought the success would be partly acheived thanks to a product of high standards because if someone buys a product once and doesnt like it they wont buy it twice, so a good product is partly helping achieve the success, the other part is in what i mentioned: marketing and branding, do you agree here ? 

You said i dont need those 10 oils i was going to include in my cleansing oil but i only need a few that will sell the product.I dont have squalane nor do i have marula, so does this mean i wont be able to craft a compelling story? 

Also what benefits does the skin get from oils? From my numerous reading and courses i undertsood that oils mainly play the role of occlusive, they bind or seal water in the skin and this is why when our skin is damp we should use oils to preserve that water in the skin, same goes for when we apply a cream or lotion, always follow it with oil to seal the hydration and prevent water from evaporating. wHAT do you say? 

You said: But as far as that magical benefit purported by the oil sellers…. well…you may need to do some research. well the only beenfits i see are 1- fast makeup removal process cus oils remove everything fast as opposed to water, soap, musline cloth etc, for someone who wears makeup id advice a cleansing oil or balm i wouldnt advice soap that might affect their skin barrier, i wouldnt advice a gel which can dry out the skin. Do you agree? 

Im not sure i know what the mommy bloggers sites say but when i did my research on cleansing oils i didnt read anythign fancy, on the contrary they said oils dissove oils and its true, take a swatch of lipstick in ur hand and remove it with oil, its gone pretty quickly , so this is not a lore here

Could you kindly assist me here when you say: 

So, choose the oils…that give the feel you are after. ( so the feel im after is a light texture for the cleansing oil, a texture that doesnt leave a film once we wash the face)  After that….choose the oils that will sell( you mean an oil around which i create a story, but any oil would do, rose oil can be used for a story just like argan oil or sunflower, hempseed, castor, coffe, do you agree? ), because that is what will determine your success or failure.  Did you attract the attention of the buyer.  And most importantly….. provide beautiful packaging, and a stunning story….and you are well on your way.For the story, you mean does it have to be related to how the product is used or what kind of story?

You are leaving me with lots of knowledge and im grateful to you 🙂

[Ghita37]

Thank you all for your continued support and contribution  
@Graillotion in your message you said few things id like to understood a bit deeper. Granted the first one, two or three…are probably at a substantial level…after that….you’ll typically find the more expensive oils….will be at an incredibly low rate (Actually…their goal is for you never to find this out.).  As it sounds like you might be new at this, small amounts like .01 or .1% are common inclusion rates of what we call ‘claim’ ingredients (those are often more expensive ingredients or ingredients that sound nice, but don’t really bring actual value, just perceived value).

 Im not sure i get what you say here. In my example of my cleansing oil, i will use 3 or 4 ingredients max( caprilyc, grapeseed oil, argan oil, rose oil, all non comedogenic, the concentration of these 3 oils will be high because this is what the cleansing oil will be made of , the rest will include vitamin c, HA, green tea extract,what do you think of this ixture? You said the most xpensive oils will be at a low rate, but if im using the 4 ingredients here why should i put low rates? You said small amounts of 0.01 ! or 0.1%, you mean if i use grapeseed oil it should represent 0.01% of the entire formula, well thats practtically nothing, this is not a cleansing oil then lol

Then you said ingredients below the 1% threshold can be placed in any order, this i get ti very well. So this means that if my oils have a rate of 0.01% or 0.1% this means they will be at the end of the ingredients deck but then what would make the bulk of the formula if the main oils are at 0.01% ?Im so interested in understanding this point here 

Also what do you mean here? 

So, in a commercial product…they might easily use the first oil at 90+%….and what you might perceive as a balanced mix….is far from it. 
So lets say i have my grapeseed, argan, rose oils and caprylic , so lets say i decide to put 90% of argan oil in my cleansing oil, the remaining 10% will be split between grapeseed, rose, caprylic, HA, green tea, polysorbate 80, Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate, well then its not going to be a cleansing oil but mainly an oil cus the 10% will be split.

Thank you for your time and support  

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone. im so grateful to all of you here for shedding some light on the matter. 
@Pattsi, apologies as i just saw your message by the way. Your points in regards to the target are so constructive. You asked me why i chose a cleansing oil over any other face cleanser. The reason is because oil based cleansers are the first step in the skincare routine of a person who wears makeup.You might ask why didnt i choose to make a cleansing balm? I thought the cleansing balm might not suit the eye area. 

@MarkBroussard thank you for your support. Could you explain what is meant by Comedogenicity is a marketing issue i need to be concerned about. I dont have marula and squalane.I have oils such as grapeseed oil, sunflower, hempseed oil, roseoil, castor oil, coffee oil( need to double check this one) I also intend to add some vitamin c and some hyaluronic acid, green tea extract .I want it to deliver .Also what do you mean that the right oils are the ones that sell? so this means i dont need 1000 oils and i should pick two and also what do you mean i have some guidance as to what sells? 

@ke@ketchito thanks a lot for your link. i read on page 36 of the link you sent me the following: In a clinical test, polysorbate 60 at 100%, polysorbate 80 at 100%, and sorbitan monostearate, ethoxylated at 25%
were not dermally irritating.So this means Polysorbate 80 is not irritating. Articles on google can be so confusing, they all all mentioned that Polysorbate 80 was not good for sensitive skin. 

@s@Squinny thank you also for your reply. You said that Polysorbate 80 doesnt turn the oil into a milky texture, so then if i want my cleansing oil to turn milky polysorbate 80 is not the best emulsifier for that? At the end of the day, should a cleansing oil emulsifiy? Does the milky texture serve like a water base to remove the dirt and grime left over from the oil cleanser?