[Ghita37]

Thank you @Paprik. The idea to want to develop a face scrub came from my own personal experience.I have dry skin and sometimes my mom would say maybe you need a face exfoliation;your skin looks dry.I go in front of the mirror and look at my face and it looks luster and i would see some very thin dry skin on the forehead and the chin.I told myself okay lets make a homemade face scrub.I googled what are the best ingredients to put in a face scrub for dry skin that also looks for a radiant glow.I found brown sugar; rice powder; oat powder; almond powder; aha and bha and pha for the most senstive skins, and what kind of oils i can incorporate that sooth and nourish the skin.
so i wanted something that remove the dead skin and also something that will slow down the appearence of fine lines ( im saying slow down not prevent cus fine lines we all know are a natural process) so i said just like im unhappy with my skin because of the dead skin im sure others are as well and are looking for ways to slow down fine lines on their skins.

When you mentioned that i want to keep the lipid portion lower do you mean that i shouldnt include many oils in the formulation? if that is what you mean i agree but then if the amount of oil is low the scrub will be too abrasive wont it?
Also like i said i intend to have both a physical and chemical face exfoliant.

[Ghita37]

Hello @ketchito, thanks for your feedback/Im not sure i understand.Are you saying that because all cosmetics have micelles then calling a micellar water micellar is inappropriate because everything should be called micellar right? 

[Ghita37]

Thank you so much @MarkBroussard and @Perry.You both said things i wanted to hear and understand and i literally just took a picture of this Perry so i can print it

If you are going to spend time & effort on your skin care line, spend it on making the most compelling marketing story for your customers. Make a decent formula, pick a wonderful fragrance, good packaging & make it easy to buy your product. Working to create an innovative product formula is a waste of time, in my opinion.

Now Perry can you please give me an example of a compelling marketing story.Fragrance wise i dont intend to put any fragrance cus i want everyone to use my products and sesntive skins dont react well to fragrance. 

And you said Kopari is supported by effective marketing and appropriate pricing and that is the key to their success. Ill study their brand again. 

Thank you both so miuch.Now i finally feel relieved cus i was reading countless articles on how to give somthing innovative, wasted months!!!

@MarkBroussard im impressed so how do you know that vessicles are the next big thing? I mean how did you come up to this conclusion? 

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone
Is it possible to have a cleanser that doesnt rinse off?

[Ghita37]

Hello @Squinny, thanks a lot for your detailed answer. 
Im actually outsourcing the manufacturing to a lab.
So my costs are: 

Cost of product itself ( cleansing oil or face scrub or shampoo or whatever)
Cost of primary packaging
cost of secondary packaging
cost of stickers
cost of filling by the lab 
END OF DIRECT COSTS

Then i have other costs such as sponsored ads, rent where ill be warehousing my products;

What bothers me is that i asked the lab for the costs and they said they will give me costs once they prepare the samples for me because for each product i want.Lets say i want a face gel , so first they send me the sample as per my requirement with my formulation; if i validate then they will determine the cost which somehow makes sense i think/Imagine if they send me a sample and i want them to change a texture or add an ingredient so this will affect the cost of the product; so i believe i first determine the formulation i like and once i do that they give me the costs, is this a good way Squinny? 

[Ghita37]

Hi Perry.I didnt know this. Well what i have learned is that science and marketing are married in the cosmetic industry but hey when a water has micelles what are you going to call it aside from micellar water? Detergent for a skincare product sounds too harsh; too irritating; you use detergent for toilet to to clean the kitchen not hyour face and when you add ingredients that sooth and hydrates the skin i believe it is no longer a detergent, what do you think? 

[Ghita37]

Hello.Is pilling the same as peeling? I did a research on google and it says that in both cases its like skin is coming out/Is this it? 

[Ghita37]

Hello @Graillotion thanks for this detailed answer. However is a product still considered mediocre when it is infused with active ingredients that address particular skin concern? 

In your own view what are exceptional skincare products and cna you give an example of an exceptional skincare product from one or two brands or more just to have an idea please? 

Ah so you are saying that what can make a product mediocre is the fast that the manufacturer is using the ingredient that is already in-house instead of sourcing an ingredient that will make a difference and which is not availanble at the manufacturer, So the sourcing of the ingredient will make the difference , is that it? 

So you qre saying that many factors make a product mediocre such as replacing an ingredent that is already available by an ingredient that should have been sourced or having a manufacturer that should take time for flow of production;So many factors like these make a product mediocre? 

Ok so for my skincare products im putting three actives per product that are imported will this gurantee that my products are not mediocre; 

Thank you for clarifying. 

[Ghita37]

Hello PhilGeis.Do you mean we dont need skin balancing products? 

[Ghita37]

Hi Gordof thanks for your reply but im not sure I understand/So this means that not all cosmetics have a PH that is close to that of the skin and this means tbat because skin is exposed on a daily basis to things that disrupt its natural PH then this mean we need products that will adjust the unbalanced PH of the skin.Is this what you mean? So if im correct how do i know anyway that my skin PH is unbalanced and that I need something to balance it? Lets say that somethign disrupted my skin PH and made it alkaline and now i need something to bring it back to acidic; how do i know in the first place that my PH has become alkaline? Could you please explain? Thanks 

[Ghita37]

Thank you all for your feedbacK.
I agree with you Perry as i always wondered if the PH on products is just a marketing tactic to give more credibility to a product. 

For the microbiome we see that a lot; is it also a marketing tactic/science washing? But im not sure I understand what micellar water have to do here?

[Ghita37]

Hello Graillotion.Thank you for your reply/ 
Can we define here what is “mediocre”?Is it  bad ingredients or a product that doesnt deliver results or is it a common product like we everyone else is doing? Kindly check the brand KOPARI can we say their products are mediocre? Yet they are successful and recently received funding from a big private equity/ 
https://koparibeauty.com/

Can you please explain what is a mediocre product? 
For me for instance for each product i do a thorough research; ask formilators; read articles; i want to BE different 

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone
Im working on the cost of my product and want to understand something.
If in my formula for example there is 

argan oil 40%
Baobab oil 5% 
Almond oil 2%
CCT 40% 
vitamin E 0.2% 
Sorbeth 30 10%
phenoxyethanol 2.3% 

To calculate the cost so the lab doesnt lie to me, i can ask ok how much is argan oil per litre, how much is baobab oil per liter
So lets say that the capacity of  my cleansing oil is: 100ml and the cost of argan oil per litrer is 100usd for instance and they put 40% argan oil meaning 40% of 100ml which means 40ml worth of argan oil.So the cost of 40Ml of argan oil is 4usd, so basically i do this for all pther ingredients to determine the cost right, is this correct? So this means that the arhan oil in mly cleanser or whatever is worth 4USD. 

Also the lab hasnt given me costing yet and i dont know if this is unprofessional on their end or its because they are waiting to receive the ingredeints prepare the samples then tell me the costing/Someone told me they should give me the cost irrespective of them preparing the samples:they should ask the supplier overseas how much this costs and for them to ask that question they must first revert to me and ask me:<Ghita how many cleansing oil do you want to produce so when they know for instance i want to start wiht 200 bottles they will know how miuhc they will ask cus they know in each bottle how much they put of each ingredient and so they ll determine the cost.But they didnt ask me that yet; they say they are wating for samples which i find bogus, they first need to ask me!! 

[Ghita37]

Another cleanser infused with actives ; so is this for marketing purpose?I mean why adding probiotics to a rinse off product? 

https://www.trendhunter.com/trends/superlumine

I was checking this other product by Shiseido; a gel to oil cleanser? Is this type new? Uusually its either gel or oil or milk,i find this interesting. So can a gel to oil be used also by dry skins? 
https://www.trendhunter.com/trends/geltooil-cleanser
Also they say its a hybrid product  cus it acts as a mlakeup remover and a cleanser; so this means not all CLEANSERS remove makeup?????!!! So this can be my diff factor; cleansing and removing makeup while formulating a gel since we saw that gels are the most pppular cleanser types in morocco; so is it possible to formulate a gel that removes makeup as well as cleanse? ( this is the benefit of cleansing oil; so can gels do both work?; this Shiseido does; so can this be my diff factor when introducing it at pahrmacies? )

[Ghita37]

Hello everyone;

I was doing some research online reading articles and i came across the brand from Japanse called Cle de Peau and read about their cleanser and then i recalled all yiur advices as to why should we put lots of actives into a rinse off products.So i gather those who do 1- target a high end audience 2- use those actives as stories to sell their products right? 
Please if you dont mind have a quick look at this cleanser from Cle de Peau; it is full of actives.Are they necessary anyway cus they will be washed off? So i guess they are using them only for their promotion mpurpose so as to entice their audience to buy so the audience thinks: oh wow im buying something luxurious right. 

https://www.trendhunter.com/trends/cleansing-cream-oil

[Ghita37]

Thank you Perry for being such a valuable source of information.Personally this forum is one of the greatest thing that has happened to me this year as it was very challenging for me to find answers.May 2023 shower you with blessings for your and your loved ones.

Ghita 

[Ghita37]

Hello @Chemicalmatt thank you for your response but i dont think Tik Tok is a one size fits all/Dont you think so? 

[Ghita37]

Hello @Perry would it ever be possible to have a zoom call with you to discuss few points so as to avoid once and for all many misconceptions if you dont mind that?

Thanks a lot 

[Ghita37]

Hello @jemolian, thank you for enlightening me on different front. 
Here you said 

Besides from Trends, you can also consider seeing some forecasts using the Google Ads Keyword Planner tool. How will this help me? 

Though for research purposes, the platform of choice where your potential customers look for products can vary. Which is why it should be asked in your survey. Some people may search for products in social media platforms which won’t be tracked by Google. Oh you mean in my survey i should ask people where they search for cosmetics; is it on google, on facebook; on Instagram etc right? 

Thank you so much 

[Ghita37]

Dear @Gordof apologies for my late reply. Is it possible to have a zoom call with you at your earliest?
Thanks 

[Ghita37]

Hello @MarkBroussard.Glycerin appears as the second ingredient on the INCI deck so this means this cleansers will moisturize more than cleanse right? 

[Ghita37]

Dear @Pattsi thank you so much for sharing your thoughts here. 
Ill dissect your message point by point 

1-In the message im saying to the audience dont look for perfection and you said WHY CANT THEY? Well simple- perfection can never be achueved! Perfection is boring, perfection requires stress and too much effort! Is perfection for you or to be accepted or to impress others? So to me the best solution is to seek the middle and that is ACCEPT YOURSELF THE WAY YOU ARE YET TREAT AREAS OF IMPROVMENT. Meaning you have pimples in your skin and are not happy then check your diet; apply a cleanser that has salicylic acid; use a face mask made with clay that absorbs excell oil; use a cleanser after using makeup; dont sleep with your makeup on; all these gestures are what am talking about: By doing this on a regular basis you will reach your skin objectives but PERFECTION you will never achieve; we are not going to lie here.Is there one skincare product that helps achieve perfection skin; maybe a foundation but no serum does that; no moisturizer; no sunscreen; no face scrub; no cleanser; no mask; no ampoule; ,o essence.Skin condition depends on many factors: hormones; stress; environment; weather condition; genes.No product can alter that but they can treat; correct; improve the appearence. 

2-My brand is about prevention; my brand is about regular slow progress made possible by regular use of product. 
So what my cleansing oil promises is it will remove your skin gunk and dirt without drying out your skin, without blurring your vision all the while keeping your skin soft and hydrated. This is what i want/I want when people use the clenaser to say: wow it cleanses very well my makeup and leaves the skin supple and well nourished and my skin is not tense. I want to innovate and offer something and im trying to be creative whence me seeking your advices all 🙂 But i know innovation will be obtained through the survey/like Elon Musk said: if you want to be innovative ASK YOUR CUSTOMERS.To be frank 

3-safe ingredients means ok i know who im targeting and because i know then i also know what will suit their skin and what will not/If im targeting someone with sensitive skin i wont offer a face scrub with salycilic acid cus it can be irritating fr them. If someone want a mild scrub ill offer something like PHA or mandelic acid or quartz granules.thats what i mean by safe.If im targeting the person who is looking for a glass skin and minimise the appearence of wrinkles then a good active ingredient can be retinaldehyde.So this is what i meant by safe.safe for your concern and yoru concern is MY TARGET AUDIENCE.So if i know who im yargeting then of course i know what they need and what i shouldnt give them

4-It gives result over the long term. How will i know how long it will take? Is it from giving to people and asking them to tell me when they start seeing results? 

5- Here you said : 
I didn’t say it is wrong or bad, it’s yours to decide. but iIf I skim read your brand concept - My understanding might be, your product is very common and somewhat won’t give me result from using it over 10 years?
So are you saying that its my prieyct that are common or my wording that makes my brand and the product sound common cus i know words have a power to make things either sound wow or mehhh lol… so are you saying that i should improve my brand concept? Ill improve it again and will share with you if you dont mind please Pattsi/ 

6- You said you understood im tagreting people wtih senstitive skin and what about normal skin§Well thats what i want to avoid;  )i want to tagrte one skin type and i dont want someone who is not the person i target to complian about my product/lets say i target ppl wiht dry and senstive skin and one who has oily skin comes and write on social media i hate this brand; i used their cleanser and it caused my skin to break out and now i have three zits because of them! To these people ill say: thank you for using our products and thank you for your review.We would like to friendly remind you this product is for senstive an d*ry skin

7- my products are beign developped cus we just ordered ingredients and we will receive them in January 2023. Thank you so much for asking that dear Pattsi.

8-so for the target audience i determined a target for each product i will develop but only the market will validate thta.so the products are cleanser/face scrub/sunscreen 

9-no for now im not targeting the US market though im tempted cus i want to create a long of Moroccan products for the US market

10-im also checking Moroccan brands not just international brands but im ttying to do a 360 degree competitive analysis cus people would buy both. 

11-I loved that you shared this example of your real case.

Example, an answer I got, balm vs oil - I like balm because it is easier to apply and control when rub it in, oil is spreadier and it make my hair style messy. 
and then arose new question why is hair style important? and so on.. bit by bit, the more data helps me understand more. Did you give this survey before giving samples or after? 
 So you got this feedback after givcing surveys right? So my plan is the same i give people samples of my three products and then surveys and then adjust the prpduct based on the survey feedback. 

Pattsi i was wondering if it would be possible to have a zoom call with you if you dont mind.i think uts always easier talking versus typing and so i can clear mu doubts easier with no back and forth please if your time permits of course

[Ghita37]

Hello @Jemolian. Im trying to understand the business aspect of what you mentioned.Could you please make it simpler if you dont mind 🙂

1-some small crafter do make this mistake which is why I had mention to do your costing for margin calculation. So here you say that some small crafters charge a low price and then when they see they dont make enough profit they increase that price correct? So what do you suggest here? To me what they should do is to account for all the costs involved in the manufacturing of their products : ingredients, primary and seconday packaging; stickers; filling and advertising.This is the TOTAL COST. To this total cost i will add MY MARGIN to get the RETAIL/SELLING PRICE correct? so this means i dont charge low to attract i charge i ” fair price” meaning a reasonable price that covers my expenses and a margin ill add to it. 

2-Let me give you a reverse example. You remember that I mention that my company imports and distributes skincare? Distribution prices can range from 25% to 45% of the recommended retail price / MSRP. So here you mean if the retailer of a brand you import sets the MSRP at 100 usd; your selling/distribution price is between 25 and 45 dollars? 

3-Would your product still profitable at an average of 30% of the retail price? If your product is 10 USD, it should still be profitable at your distribution price, let’s say for example 35%, which is 3.5 USD. 
I dont understand what you say here if my product would still be profitable at an average of 30% of the retail price. Ok lets say it costs me 10 dollars to produce 1 cleansing oil and i decide to sell ( decision made on the basis of a copetitve analysis and my positionning) then what about that? I dont understand your idea. Also when you ask if my product would still be profitable at an average of 30% of the retail price so this means that the retail price is set by the pharmacy so i sell it at the pharmacy at 20 usd and they sell at 30% more is this what you say OR lets say pharmacy sells at at say 100usd so you are asking me if i sell it at 30usd to them would i still be profitable, is this what you mean? Can you please explain again cus im not sure i get it here. 

4-It’s best to minimise price increases due to price setting mistakes, example if you are only profitable at 5 USD, then to adjust for distribution at 35%, then your retail price will be adjusted to 14+ USD. Are customers still willing to accept at this price point? I dont understand here again the numbers and the concept. Ok so lets say my retail price is 5usd, what is the distribution at 35% that you are talking about? Wait distribution price is applied only in the case of B2B right? Im confused a lot now. 
Could you clarify this cus i know this is actually one of the most important aspec of my business- THE BUSINESS SIDE then comes MARKETING then comes PROMOTION and BRAND AWARENESS.

[Ghita37]

Dear @jemolian, thanks a lot and i mean those words. Please excuse my behavior cus whatever you write I immediately have other questions to ask :smiley: Ok let me jump to your last message then ill come back to the first one;

1- is what i wrote considered a brand concept?
2-I dont understand what you mean that based on what i wrote i can tag along some of the trends which i can look into. And how would looking at trends serve me or benefit me, i dont get it? I mean is it still part fo the brand concept to understand more brand concept and expound on what i wrote when i speak to B2C and B2B clients; is this the reasoning behind you suggesting me to look into trends? 
3-skin to be safe by that i mean if im making a product for a person with senstive skin then i wont put in that product essential oil. So my idea is that YOU are on my mind when i make a product for you.Its not just the ingreeints that are safe but the formulation that is for YOUR SPECIFIC skin concern. 
4-The right active ingredents means again the RIGHT CHOICE for you;so again if you have SENSITIVE SKIN we know that the right chemical exfoliator would be something like mandelic acid or a PHA.Again since i want to not make things worse for people with senstive skin; i intend to create a face scrub with mandelic acid. So i have YOU and your concerns in my mind when i develop a product.This is what i i meant when i said the RIGHT ACTIVE meaning the RIGHT CHOICE based on your CONCERN; 

5-so can this brand cocnept I wrote above  be a diff factor Jemolian?( if yes it should be backed by actions not just words and the actions are  Or its not strong enough to entice people to want to be curious and try? I was doing some research into Brand Concept and found examples of BRAND CONCEPTS for different brands spanning different industries; cosmetics, food; technology and ill share some here. 
brand concept of Shiseido: 
encouraging diversity through inclusive campaigns and offering products that are as equally grounded in nature as they are in science

6-the other idea part of my concept is that you dont need to follow a lenghty routine but just listen to your own needs YET adopt a preventative approach to your routine

Btw what i understand is that there must be a cohesion between the rband concept and the products of the brand right? by cohesion i mean consistency. 
So can my brand concept be a diff factor and how to highlight it? Is my story enough to encourage people to say pick my cleanser over that of Laroche? 
Thank you all 

[Ghita37]

By the way @ Jemolian in regards to my brand concept or the main idea behind my brand is: take care of yourself; dont neglect yourself yet dont look for perfection.Infuse or feed your skin the ingredients it needs to attain your goals but accept aging.Our products are made with safe ingredients and when used on a regular basis give results over the long term. My concept also is that we make our product with YOU THE CUSTOMER in our mind; we want you to know that we care about you and about the safety of your skin. We want to make your life easier.We want you to know that though our products are not rocket science i mean a cleanser or face scrub are products that are common yet we want you to know that we invest a lot of time behind every decision we make from choosing the right active ingredients to the right surfactant because want want your skin to be safe and breath . µ
 By the way im reading now about brand concept and i feel like it is more or less the philosophy of the brand; what does the brand stand for overall, is this correct?