Doreen
Forum Replies Created
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@MarkBroussard
New idea.
I’ll make the base product without SA adjust it to pH 3.5 add preservation etc.
The days that I will be using it, I’ll make a premix with SA + propylene glycol and add it to the base.Is this an idea, or does it reappear out of solubilisation quicker than can be applied, or wouldn’t it solubilize at all without the buffer?
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Of course.
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Well that’s really shitty then. I can’t get sodium citrate, octyldodecanol nor other solvents for SA and the company I buy stuff from told me no buffers were needed with propyene glycol. Oh well, it’s my own mistake for being so gullible.
I’ll just disperse it in vaseline then
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@MarkBroussard
Would propylene glycol + 1% citric acid solution instead of sodium citrate, do aswell? And potassium sorbate instead of sodium benzoate? -
The LOI you listed seems a bit odd to me in that it contains more Citric Acid that SA and then an adjustment with Sodium Hydroxide.
Exactly! I just don’t get it.
I would also prefer sodium lactate over sodium hydroxide.
I can’t get my hands on Methyl-Gluceth 20, would propylene glycol also do as a SA solubilizer in a concentration of 1%?These are the ingredients I will be using (not in order btw):
SA 1%, propylene glycol, PEG-40 HCO, glycerin, bisabolol, allantoin, citric acid, xanthan gum, sodium lactate, disodium EDTA.Propylene glycol will be >10%, disodium EDTA will be 0,1%. Would I need to add a preservative? Packaging will be airtight.
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@johnb
Sorry, I meant PEG40 hydrogenated castor oil (LV41)
What exactly is PEG 40? If I google it, I only get the HCO one. -
PEG-40 is cheaper than polysorbate here.
I reckon PEG-40 also affects preservatives like phenoxyethanol and parabens, like polysorbate does? -
Ok, thanks! I’ll try the concentrate to keep the ‘customer’ satisfied.
Good to hear that heat doesn’t affect its properties in a negative way. -
@johnb, True. It contains fragrance, which will be enough for most.
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I always suspected it feeling like pure glycerin. :#
To think people also eat/drink this stuff. “It’s a strong detox! I got rid of my constipation immediately!” Yeah, so does a gastric flu virus.
Cucumber has indeed a pleasant feel, non sticky. When I was younger and stupid enough to sunbathe, I used to slice cucumber and put it on sunburns.
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Just curious. No actives in this serum apart from the SPF?
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Exactly. Many companies have built their whole image around it and use it as main ingredient, must be something psychological? It looks healthy, green and succulent. But indeed, so does a cucumber.
About the powders. I’ve just read in a link that the plant is undergoing high temperatures in the drying process to obtain the powder.
I think I tell my family to visit the garden centre and just buy the plant. Strip a leaf and stop bugging me. o:)
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@Belassi and what about lower pH, regarding vanilla? Say pH 5?
I just ordered hypoallergenic almond scented oil. Don’t know if that whole ‘hypoallergenic’ claim really means something. I always thought volatile/aromatic ingredients, no matter if they’re synthetic or natural, are irritants. But I do like almond scent, so I’m curious!
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@Bill_Toge, @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ,
Just googled on the specifics. Lotioncrafter states it should be: “white or light brownish yellow crystalline powder with a mild pleasant odor”
Could it be the more colour and scent, the higher the purity?
@johnb ,
Thanks, I will try this! Do I still need to dissolve these at a high temperature then? I don’t know if niacinamide is stable at temperatures above 80 C. -
@johnb,
Thanks! I will look for a strictly oil based perfume oil then.
Too bad vanilla is hard to work with, if you don’t want to use alcohol. The smell is so nice, I had really hoped it would work. -
@MarkBroussard, @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ
I’ll try the sodium lactate first, since I don’t have propanediol right now.
Thanks for helping me out!Strange… I have two charges of ferulic acid, one has a pleasant smell and is slightly orange, the other is colourless and odorless. Have you ever had a difference like that between charges of ferulic acid?
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The knock off fragrance in the hand cream you use is oil based then? I do use airless dispensers by the way, so I might as well give it a try in a small batch…
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So would it even be ok to use an eau de toilette, which is mostly alcohol/water based? Doesn’t the scent change too much, will it remain stable?
How much % of a knock off fragrance do you usually use in the hand cream?I was experimenting with real vanilla pods, because it’s about the only fragrant ingredient that’s actually beneficial for skin. but I can hardly smell it. And way too expensive. But your answer is very good news to me. I have so many bottles of perfume (mostly edt and edp’s), glad I can use them this way too.
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@johnb, I started a new thread about preservatives because I no longer have questions about homogenizers.
About the small molecule topical pharmaceutical products you’re developing. You’ve got my attention! I’m wondering what kind of products these will be since you explicitly mention small molecules. Do you mind telling me for what kind of indications these are used? Skin diseases or also for systemic use? -
@johnb,
Many preservatives can be rendered ineffective by ethoxylated surfactants.Is this the case with parabens aswell? (These are the only preservatives I have actually some experience with.) I’m really getting fed up by the anti-paraben hype, I can hardly get them here. Same with aluminum salts for anti-transpirants, except for alum for some reason, since some people here think it’s ‘natural’ and therefore, better.
If I do decide to start a small company in skincare, this is what worries me most. The stubbornness of the easily scared and often willingly ill-informed majority of custumers.So, since it’s still for my own use, I will stick to parabens. Which preservatives do you prefer, in general?
@Bobzchemist
If formula cost or non-irritating is a big issue, AND you have homogenizers in your production facility, it may be worth the time and effort to find that “sweet spot” of just enough emulsifier - but those cases have been rare, in my experience.I think I tried that too, to have just enough. If I add something to my cream, it easily separates. If I do this with a bought cream, It looks like I can add almost as much as I like. I have one now, which I would like to use as a cream base, it contains at least five emulsifying ingredients (that are labeled solely as emulsifier). Very basic, silicone based and the only additons are aloe vera and allantoin. It appears to have an excess of emulsifiers.
My husband immediately notices the difference, if I make a moisturizer/after shave cream from scratch (water, emulsifier, oil etc.) or use a bought cream and add additives, the same active ingredients I use in my own cream. Using the bought cream as a base causes irritation, even if the only irritants on the LOI are the emulsifiers… (no fragrance, no essentail oils, no ethanol etc.)
Apart from lanolin and some surfactants like SLS, I didn’t even know emulsifiers could act as irritants. As a newbie, I’ve got a tremendous amount to learn…(And I’ve tried an HLB calculator. I wonder if it’s of any use to me if I only use vegetable oils, which are all about 7?)
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I’ve been in this game a long, long while and the only times I needed a homogenizer I could count on the fingers of one hand.
@johnb, By this alone I know that I really won’t need one. At work we’ve used Ultra Turrax, two types. The large one mostly for making suspensions at rather low speed. The max of that thing was bizarre, it made me wonder what type of preparation would really need that.
But the substances we used mostly, even a bit of shaking would have been a ‘molecule ripping force’. (Monoclonal antibodies) Thank you for making it very clear how I should process hyaluronic acid, I’ve never worked with this ingredient before.Thank you, @Bobzchemist, @jeremien.
I’m waiting for a few more ingredients from another supplier to get started. I’ll let you know how it worked out. Thanks for the tips about emulsifiers and where to buy small homogenizers.@jeremien,
With ethoxylated surfactants you can play with temperature and prepare emulsion by phase inversion temperature.To this thread an off topic question, maybe I should start a new one, not sure. About ethoxylated surfactants: I read a preservative like phenoxyethanol can be made ineffective by these. Do you know in what percentage? Like if I use only 3% (polysorbate 80) in a formula and preserve it with phenoxyethanol (and sorbic acid), how ‘harmful’ would it be on its effectiveness?
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@Bill_Toge, clear now, thanks!
Indeed I didn’t state the slurry sentence exact enough. Make a slurry with glycerin or propylene glycol for example, put it in the needed amount of water and then leave it for a few hours.
And exactly: hopefully without lumps. Would mixing it (slurry in water) by a small kitchen blender give less risk of lumps than by hand? -
Is it a good idea to mix the hyaluronic with for example glycerin or propylene glycol, to make a slurry, but by hand? Does it then fully hydrate if I put it away for a few hours?
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@jeremien, @johnb, @Bobzchemist,
thanks for your suggestions.I think I’m a little lost in translation on the mixing equipment.
Is a homogenizer comparable to a rotor-stator mixer for example?
Or can the word ‘homogenizer’ be used as a general name for any mixing tool?