[Doreen]

The numbers don’t add up to 100, what is the whole formula?

[Doreen]

@Belassi
Vitamin C in an orange has never been in contact with air, that was what I meant. During manufacturing of a serum, it is exposed to air, before it is packed in an airless container.

[Doreen]

A serum for the private area containing 1% menthol? Isn’t that too much? It seems rather painful to me. Also, is this a cosmetic? 

[Doreen]

Belassi has a point, olive oil in higher % can dry out skin. I never use it in my creams.

Also agree with Bill. I hardly use xanthan anymore now that I have several polymers like some carbomers from Lubrizol and Sepimax Zen.
The sensorials are so much better than with xanthan.

I also hate the smell of Geogard 221/Cosgard. It also interacts with anionics like carbomers^ (causes discoloration).
Can you get Phenonip for example? It’s broad spectrum and quite easy to work with. Or Germaben II. These are the two preservatives I use the most, since I’ve finally found a supplier that sells these.

[Doreen]

Unrefined shea smells foul and is very hard to mask in my opinion.
The same with unrefined argan oil, pomegranate seed oil, borage oil, sea buckthorn oil etc, these foul smells are a pain to mask with fragrance. Somehow you keep smelling it, even in low %.

If I were you, I’d use at least filtered/deodorized shea. Good luck!

[Doreen]

@Belassi
Lots of retinol in shea? Links please!

[Doreen]

The total absence of air, I think.

[Doreen]

@em88 @tanelise
I’ve used Pemulen as single emulsifier and the Ultrez 10 as rheology  mod., no fatty alcohols (they interact with Pemulen) and the result is astonishing! Quite an oil phase >20% and the sensorials are great, very light. I will surely do this again! In my next experiment I will be using other emulsifiers with it (btw many emulsifiers interact with Pemulen, depending on the carbon chain length). 

Tip: disperse both the carbomer and the Pemulen in the oil phase. Add the water phase very very slowly while mixing full speed. I didn’t have one single clump! :blush:

One more thing, if you use something like Pemulen as only emulsifer, you can put a ‘0% emulsifier’ claim on your product.

[Doreen]

@EliseCortes
Thanks! I didn’t know Alexmo in Germany! :+1:

[Doreen]

@Zink
Supplier-wise it’s horrible in Europe!
A while ago I discovered Aliacura in Germany and I’m more than pleased! Good quality, good prices (also shipping costs are very reasonable).

[Doreen]

@kot
Heating (>70C) only causes panthenol to racemize (especially if you heat it for a longer time, just prior to emulsification isn’t a problem I think). And it’s only the D isomer that is converted into panthothenic acid in the skin. Both isomers do have hydrating properties however, so I agree with Perry that you won’t notice a difference.

@Belassi
I’d love to hear more about your grain hydrolysis adventures.
So you did try quinoa. In @David08848 ‘s post I suggested it (the shaving cream ingredient), but didn’t know you’d already tried it.
I would also like  to know if it is mostly the protein or also the carbs in oats that have soothing properties. Oat also has about 20 unique polyphenols (avenanthramides) that seem to be soothing, anti-inflammatory. Point is, I hate the smell of hydrolyzed grains. You say liquid hydrolyzed oat doesn’t have an unpleasant smell? Hmm I might embark myself on this project as well…

[Doreen]

@marytsiang
I suppose you don’t use tocopherol and BHT together in one formula?

[Doreen]

@tanelise
Good to hear! You’ll never want to use gums again.
I made my first cold process cream today with Pemulen TR-1 (and Ultrez 10), it’s lovely! A great way if you want to use high % of delicate unrefined cold pressed oils! 

[Doreen]

@cindyhr
Good to see the problem is solved and that it wasn’t microbial contamination!

Parabens actually are a ‘plant based solution’ (e.g. raspberries, blackberries).
Here’s a good read about parabens. Too bad the majority of the customers probably won’t believe the truth anyway…

[Doreen]

@cindyhr

We make
them up fresh now for our customers which solves the problem

I don’t
think so. Your formula is still the same, right? Can you guarantee that the customers can use it as long as the PAO
symbol on the label indicates, say 12 months or so? If you
already have mold problems while it isn’t used, guess what the customers will
have at home?

I wouldn’t want to sell it if I knew the formula wasn’t safe! You’re playing with your customers health!

[Doreen]

So customers rather have mold blooms than safe parabens… amazing.

I wonder what it is during the manufacturing process that makes an unused lipstick moldy?

[Doreen]

Do you have a jar or can you get one? Aren’t they obliged to put the INCI names in a LOI on the package?

Edit: I see that you’ve purchased the cream. So they can get away with an incorrect LOI on the package?

Wow, those homemade products on Etsy are expensive! 😮

[Doreen]

@tanelise
Oh nothing ‘special’ yet. A new stick blender for high shear, planetary mixer for low shear (for home crafting).
At work we have Ultra Turrax homogenizers, there is a small change I can buy one of these second hand at a reduced price (still pricey nonetheless).

[Doreen]

Tip: an easy emulsifier for beginners is Emulsifying Wax NF (INCI: Cetearyl Alcohol and Polysorbate 60).

[Doreen]

Phenoxyethanol isn’t stong on molds.
I’d use propyl paraben, an oil soluble paraben.

Edit: I just looked it up, up to 0,3% is safe in lip products.
(http://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/paraben_web.pdf)

[Doreen]

@tanelise
Same here

[Doreen]

Thank you very much, @DAS !

[Doreen]

David,
Some links to a very popular old school men-only barbershop in my country. They shave traditionally with straight razors, hot towels and serve whiskey.
Their site and also this one for their own brand of vintage looking products for customers from other countries (incl LOI’s of every product).
I don’t know if their formulas are also vintage, or only the package/looks. You’ll be the judge of that.
This is a LOI of a shaving cream (from their own site):

Aqua, Stearic Acid, Glycerin, Sorbitol, Potassium Hydroxide, Aloe
Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice, Cetyl Alcohol, Equisetum Arvense Extract,
Hamamelis Virginiana (Witch Hazel) Leaf Extract, Hydrolyzed Quinoa, Rosmarinus
Officinalis Leaf Extract, Tocopheryl Acetate, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract,
Stearyl Alcohol, Fragrance (Parfum), Hexyl Cinnamal, Caprylyl Glycol,
Phenoxyethanol, Sorbic Acid.

Good luck with your product!

p.s. @Belassi Hydrolyzed Quinoa, an idea for you? I see a lot of hydrolyzed grains, but first time that I see hydrolyzed quinoa.

[Doreen]

@Perry @DAS
You only have 15 minutes time to edit a comment, just like it was before.
It still isn’t possible to edit older comments.

@tanelise
Maybe you’ve (accidently) clicked on ‘Mark All Viewed’ next to ‘Discussions’?

[Doreen]

Do we have time for this, these days? It would have been a great idea in the 19th century, though.

Belassi, you wouldn’t believe how popular it is!
Here we even have old school barbershops again that are mainly doing beards, mustaches, sideburns etc. 
Beards are hot these days! Even very young guys here are growing full beards (from wild to nicely trimmed). There is a whole new market for beard oil, mustache wax and indeed pre-shave products.