[Doreen]

I didn’t know that either.
If I read about interactions with non ionics, then parabens come to mind. Parabens are esters of benzoic acid, so maybe there is a connection?

[Doreen]

A quick tip as I’m in a hurry: you’d better use a stick blender than a whisk (a stick blender creates high shear forces).
You’ll find a lot of useful beginner information here regarding emulsions, mixing tools etc.

And borage oil is very prone to oxidation, I would personally choose another type of oil (like jojoba for example, which isn’t an oil officialy).

[Doreen]

@Nouf
I don’t sell my products either, I’m a homecrafter, but I would never formulate with drops or volume. It’s best if you get at least two scales, for small quantities and larger quantities. The smaller the batch, the more accurate your weighing scale must be.
It’s not a shame if you don’t know how it works, if that is the case! It’s just that in formulating you have to deal with this, or else you’ll end up with a product you’ll have no idea what exactly is in it.
I see it a lot on mommy blogs and several DIY sites, using drops and volume (spoons etc), it’s highly inaccurate.

w/w% or m/m% means percentages in weight (mass) of a your total (100%) in weight.
There’s also volume in mass (v/m%= rarely used) or mass in volume (m/v%), but in formulating you’ll only use w/w%, not volumes. Volume measuring isn’t accurate enough and you’ll also need to know the relative density of substances in some situations (water for example is the same, 1 gram of water is 1 cc in volume, but oils are lighter than water (that’s why they float on water) and may be 0,9 gram for 1 cc for example.)

I sometimes use volume measuring if I make calibration fluid for my pH meter, but the cilinders/flasks/beakers I use are calibrated.

[Doreen]

@Chemist77
I will! :joy:

[Doreen]

No problem! :+1:

[Doreen]

@Chemist77
Thanks for your input!
More evidence regarding heat instability.

Too bad this document doesn’t say from what temperature, but I’ve got to find a way around that heated water phase. I don’t know any cold process emulsifiers that can withstand that much electrolytes.

‘If heated, it releases water and hydrochloric acid. Rising temperatures lead in turn to the formation of aluminum hydroxide gels, γ-aluminum oxide and finally α-aluminum oxide (corundum).’

Corundum? Am I making gems? :joy:

[Doreen]

@Nouf
There is nothing advanced about using w/w%?

[Doreen]

Proper INCI for magical rose water! I love it, where did you find this, Sven
? :joy:

[Doreen]

   

[Doreen]

@Chemist77
Viscosity is perfect, so I don’t think the Zen is an issue.
I started with 1,5% Zen because of the salt tolerance, but it ended up in a paste!

I am beginning to doubt if the product is heat stable and the precipitate maybe a degradation product, an insoluble aluminum compound or so.

[Doreen]

@Dtdang
This is a very old thread. Big chance the problem has been resolved in the mean time.

[Doreen]

@Perry
Thank you so much for all this information! Very valuable! :+1: 

[Doreen]

True, they’re different. There’s also PEG-40 Castor Oil by the way.

I don’t have problems finding good fragrances as a homecrafter! There are several suppliers here that sell loads of synthetic fragrances, also knock off fragrances, e.g. ‘Blue Man’ (Blue Sugar by Aqualino) ‘Cold Water’ (Cool Water by Davidoff) that I bought a while ago for the aftershave creams that I make for my husband. (My husband likes the scent of his creams to go with his after shaves/eau de toilettes). His favourite EDT’s now are Bang by Marc Jacobs and 1 Million by Paco Rabanne, but still haven’t found knock offs for these… 
I don’t mind if my moisturizers are unscented.

Do you know many clients choose unscented moisturizers as ‘most effective’ if compared with a scented version with same actives? They also think the unscented are more expensive brands! I think this is because cheap brands actually always use fragrance in creams etc. 

For you it may be an idea to go to Brambleberry (USA) or Gracefruit (UK). MakingCosmetics and Lotioncrafter don’t sell fragrances as far as I can remember.

[Doreen]

Isn’t that Lanette W from BASF? It’s a much used anionic emulsifier blend in pharmacies here for indifferent creams (= without pharmaceutical substance). This is a standardized recipe here:

15% Cetearyl Alcohol + SLS (Lanette W)
20% Decyl Oleate (Cetiol V)
4% Sorbitol 70% non cryst.
0,15% sorbic acid
aqua purificata ad 100

(this one is called Lanette I , all standard/basic ‘indifferent’ creams here are named after their emulsifier(s).)

This is Lanette II:

24% Lanette W
16% Cetiol V
4% Sorbitol 70% non cryst.
0,15% sorbic acid
aqua purificata ad 100

[Doreen]

@BeautifullyArtistic
No offense, but you do have a fume cupboard + fume extraction, but still mix nail polish excipients in plastic cups?
Don’t get us wrong, but do not underestimate safety measures, they’re an absolute necessity and it’s one of the reasons nail polish usually isn’t something for homecrafters to experiment with.

[Doreen]

I’ve tried arrowroot powder in an anhydrous body butter formula, but you either need a lot or its effect is minimal. I wasn’t exactly thrilled by the effect.

[Doreen]

I never use more than 20% shea in my lipbalms and never had problems with bitter taste so far. Do you use refined shea? Raw shea can’t be heated and the smell is disgusting and overwhelming.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
I can tell you right away that squalane doesn’t add anything. It’s a claims ingredient mostly.
Carbomers (pre-neutralized or not) can be used as only gelforming polymer, I’ve seen it before. It depends on other excipients and what you want qua sensorials.

[Doreen]

@Perry
Thank you!
How and where can I find what the most recent conclusions are? (the document about parabens for example is from 1984)

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
So you left out the petrolatum, I see. Did it still give problems?
Congratulations by finding a way around it! :+1: 

[Doreen]

@maria
It wouldn’t surprise me. It’s not even the irritating potential for most of the crunchies, the fact alone that PG is being used in anti-freeze makes them anti.

[Doreen]

Dr Catherine Pratt said:

What about taking a few vanilla beans and boiling them and put in to a L of Olive Oil or Sunflower oil, so then you infuse it over a few days. There will be no colour.

And there won’t be a scent to speak of. At least not when I made a vanilla macerate myself once (in almond oil). The smell was very weak…
A year ago or so there was a perfumer on this forum, (who unfortunately isn’t active here anymore) he wrote that vanilla is one of the most difficult fragrant ingredients regarding discoloration etc.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
Not the sodium carbomer, but the Ultrez 20 and 30 where you used TEA to neutralize, I think some people here write about those.

@Fekher
No carbomer doesn’t gel the oil phase. I put polymers in the oil phase (when the formula allows it) because this way they don’t hydrate right away and dispersion can be better and quicker.

@jeremien
When ngarayeva001 writes about a ‘gelled waterphase’, she is answering Chemist77. She asks that IF you would put it in the water phase wouldn’t that have an adverse effect on emulsification.

[Doreen]

@jeremien
Where do you read that ngarayeva001 puts the TEA before emulsification?

[Doreen]

How about adding the carbomer to the heated oil phase?
If I don’t make a Geltrap or HIP W/O emulsion, I practically always put polymers in the oil phase and never had this problem.
I don’t know if it helps, but maybe it’s worth a try?
Good luck!

Edit: in a Geltrap or HIPe the gel has to be formed before emulsification and has no adverse effect on the emulsion. I prefer adding polymer to oil phase in other formulations because it’s quicker.