[Donmattus]

I can’t use products, or at least I can’t find a product, that you can buy in the shops as they give me a reaction, which is why I am having to make my own. As soon as I start to use water based formulas I have to use preservatives and I haven’t found one I can use. So I am looking for an oil only based formula

[Donmattus]

Thanks for commenting. So the general jist is that it wouldn’t be any good just adding zinc oxide to cct oil? 

Microformulations, I have tried every preservative you can buy as a consumer. It has cost a lot. I’ve tried them and the only one that I didn’t react to was leucidal SF but some people on here suggested it was not safe so I didn’t pursue it. Other than that, I get a reaction. This is because I have damaged skin due to medication and trying to treat dermatitis. I live with these consequences now as I had no problem using anything before. It has been years now and the issue isn’t going away. If you can suggest one that is less well known and not available on sites like makingcosmetics or lotioncrafter then I’d be happy to try it. But then the other issue  I have is reactions to ingredients you have to put in formulations to make them stable etc. I haven’t tried everything here but I’ve tried enough to give up trying. I made my own. I got formulators to make some for me. And of course I’ve tried so many products you can buy it has cost a fortune. Including all the specialty ones for sensitive skin. As I say, put cct oil is about the only thing that doesn’t cause a reaction. Squalane does and mixing them still causes me problems. Anything with carbon chain lengths C12-C24 is problematic as they encourage dermatitis so again I’m open to ideas if you have some suggestions. I’d love to find a product/formulation that was ok for me. I’d pay a lot for it!

[Donmattus]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Belassi- that is very interesting and I have always wondered about diet. I’ll give it a go.

Doreen - thanks for the info. I know eucerin - I use their anti dandruff shampoo and I have tried some of their products before but they didn’t work. What are those ones you mention called? I wouldn’t try making something like that as it is too complicated for me!

[Donmattus]

Thanks Bob - I’ll try one and see how it goes. Would sucragel be better for skin than CCT alone as it has glycerine in it?

Belassi - what makes you think it could be dairy? I’m willing to try anything so I’ll give it a go, I just wondered why you thought that?

[Donmattus]

I have tried silicones. I tried a pure silicone and it was ok but I didn’t really feel any benefit in terms of improving my symptoms. I guess I could try a little to thicken the CCT? There are so many out there too, which do you think I should try?

I did try jojoba and I remember it being good for a short while but after a few days y skin was itchier. That was when I was suffering from seb derm so I figured it irritated that? 

I haven’t tried lanolin specifically. Only in products I’ve tried so wouldn’t know what effect it would have on its own

[Donmattus]

Thanks Doreen and Perry - that sounds like good advice.

Bob - to be honest I don’t know what is causing the irritation. A number of dermatologists don’t think there is a problem and then prescribe petroleum only for this to make things worse! Which is why I’ve taken things into my own hands. What I know is this - some ingredients definitely cause irritation. Some redness. Some itchiness. Some a strange pain in the skin like it is really sore. But if I don’t use anything my skin itches. Dermatologists said it was seborrheic dermatitis but I have treated it for that and the last one I saw said I didn’t have that anymore. When I use CCT it helps soothe and calm the itching and redness. The problem is it makes me look greasy (unless I don’t put much on and then I don’t get the benefit), it runs and can give me red eyes, or it doesn’t always soothe the itching. So I’m looking for other ingredients! I haven’t tried sucragel, I’ll look into it, thanks 

[Donmattus]

Thanks for the advice. Petrolatum irritates my skin. Very quickly it becomes red and inflamed. 

I have tried parabens and they too irritate my skin so I have to avoid those. 

I have tried aloe vera and it is fine if it is pure. I found I reacted badly to some and came to the conclusion it must have had potassium sorbate in it - which is one of the worst for me - I react in seconds like severe sunburn. 

I was thinking of a CCT based formulation simply because I know this doesn’t irritate. I have read things such as amino acids or ceramides may be good for skin and are oil soluble?  Sea whip extract some people say might be good but I can’t get hold of it http://www.lipochemicals.com/system/files/brochures/GORGONIAN_SS_SINGLES_2014.pdf

[Donmattus]

All preservatives from lotion crafter and all those from dermosoft. The only preservative that I didn’t react to was leucidal SF but as it isn’t good with mould I tried to find something to make up for that but couldn’t. So I have eliminated water as an ingredient, which is why I am focussing on oil. I was also on here before and someone said that it is the oil that does the work so I assume it is ok? 

I have tried jojoba but that aggravated the seborrheic dermatitis  (fatty acids of carbon chains 12 to 24 feed the problem so I have tried to focus on ingredients outside that range, which is limiting). I tried tea tree but no good either. The oil in the link I posted had grapeseed and patchouli but that wasn’t good after a couple of uses. 

[Donmattus]

Hi everyone, thanks for the advice, I’ll try it in a glass bottle and sew what happens

[Donmattus]

Thank you both (and hi Jon), that is really helpful. 

I came across this https://www.cherirnatura.co.uk/collections/raw-materials/products/100-pure-vitamin-e-oil and wondered what you thought?

[Donmattus]

Hi Jon, I know I have replied on the other forum but thanks for the link - that is very helpful indeed. 

[Donmattus]

Thank you for all your help with this. 

The end result seems to be good for most of my face but it is not good for my eyebrow areas (which are the sensitive bits - I don’t think it is an allergy to the silicone, just it doesn’t soothe the irritated skin enough so it is too uncomfortable to leave on for any length of time). I see the benzyl alcohol is soluble in water 1g to 25ml water https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/benzyl_alcohol#section=Solubility so I wondered if it could be added to aloe vera? 

[Donmattus]

Thanks, I did do that but I wasn’t sure if I had missed something - it is not easy to stir such small amounts into such a sticky substance - I was worried it wouldn’t be uniform throughout. Has heating the gel and/or the benzyl alcohol/climbazole solution ruined them do you think? 

[Donmattus]

Hi,

After the Christmas post has finally arrived I have had a go at making a silicone gel / climbazole mix. 

I found climbazole to dissolve in benzyl alcohol very easily - I used 1:2 and heated (under 40C) and it dissolved

I found it difficult to mix it with the silicone gel though. I heated it to 70C (as it would have been if added to the oil phase) and then mixed the benzyl alcohol/climbazole solution and then stirred it. I couldn’t mix it with a blender as it was too sticky so I just used a hand mixer but I am not confident it is mixed through. Should I be blending it? Should I heat the silicone gel to higher temperatures? Any advice would be much appreciated

[Donmattus]

Yes, sorry, it would have to be in 90ml! And 0.3g climbazole in 1ml benzyl alcohol 

[Donmattus]

Thanks John.

And Bob, thanks too. That’s a good suggestion, I’ll give it a go. benzyl alcohol is only licenced upto 1% here in Europe so I’m hoping I can dissolve 0.03g climbazole in 1ml benzyl alcohol and add that to 9ml silicone gel. 

I can see I read the Dermosoft Decalact liquid info wrong! Oops. Still looks interesting in terms of targeting malassezia. I can order 10ml of it from Germany so might get some and see how it is

[Donmattus]

Thank you, I’ll have a look. I’ve seen a few dermatologists, as have a number of people suffering with the same condition, they prescribe steroid creams, which don’t help in the long run. one told me to use nizoral shampoo on my face and another daktarin, a foot cream, both of which are too harsh for my face and give me a reaction. so I’m researching making my own lotion. I came across this today https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.lucasmeyercosmetics.com/mailing/pdf/DermosoftDecalactLiquid-ProductInformation.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjq88KDtYvRAhXIO1AKHVtDCnUQFggnMAQ&usg=AFQjCNFBfCUuMxU-jgmKrGJoW3i2YV_C7g&sig2=3KLG4CqHc197C6tOOYOKXw which looks promising!  it shows TEC has antifungal properties. I just don’t know much about how to use tec in lotions

[Donmattus]

People have been putting Xylitol in their creams to do just that. This is on some evidence that it disrupts candida biofilms but I don’t think there is any research specifically on malassezia? I could be wrong but I haven’t come across it. I’ve put some in the one I made but my problem is that I’m struggling to make a cream that soothes my skin for longer than an hour. Cetaphil restoraderm works but that the feeds the malassezia and it gets worse after a few days. I have been putting mct oil/climbazole mix on each day for a few hours before it then itches too much and I have to wash it off. That’s why I was interested in the TEC, maybe it would be a better oil for me?

[Donmattus]

Sorry for the long time in replying.

Can I just ask about TEC, is it safe to put on the skin neat? or only as part of a lotion? if so what concentration do you recommend?  

In terms of killing malassezia and feeding it at the same time, my conversations with Tom Busby have taught me that the malassezia creates a biofilm making it difficult to treat as it is protected within it. The climbazole will treat it but slowly - it can take months, even up to a year to treat properly - but feeding it can help it immediately and so the less food for it the more effective the treatment will be. I suspect the reason why so many of the products available OTC today don’t work is precisely because of this, but that is my guess!

[Donmattus]

That is helpful, thank you.

I have a diagnosis of seborrheic dermatitis, which is caused by malassezia - according to research this fungus metabolises fatty acids of chain length C:12-C:24. I can buy an MCT oil (C:6, C:8, C:10) easily and it won’t make the condition worse. Shea Butter has C:16, C:18, and C:20 in and so theoretically would make it worse (Cetaphil has it in and soothes it for a short while but doesn’t help in the long run - it becomes redder and itchier). So the only reason I am using MCT oil is because of its composition but clearly it isn’t the answer for me - at least not on its own. Oils and butters which are considered to soothe irritated skin have fatty acids of child lengths greater than C:11, which is why I have excluded them. If you know of any that this isn’t the case for then that would really help me.

I did make a lotion with aloe vera but I had a bad skin reaction - I think it was the potassium sorbate? It was Tom Busby who suggested I get rid of the aloe vera and try water. 

Things which research shows kills malassezia are: Lime Oil, Tea Tree Oil, and Sandalwood Oil. I haven’t experimented with these because I have read a lot about irritating the skin with essential oils. So it leaves me at a loss of which oils to combine. I will do some more research on it. Or I could try things which soothe that dissolve in oil - but I haven’t done much research on that as I have been focused on making a lotion! The only reason I thought making a lotion would help is so that I could use it in the day and not look like I have a really oily face at work! 

johnb suggested triethyl citrate to dissolve climbazole. Would this be safe for the face? And I see it is slightly soluble in water. If I could dissolve climbazole in it then maybe it could be combined with other water soluble ingredients? Such as aloe vera (without potassium sorbate!)? Or is this barking up the wrong tree?

[Donmattus]

Thanks johnb and Bobzchemist. 

That is a very good point and it is one I started with. If I was starting from scratch I am sure this would work great for me. The problem I have is that I have followed dermatologists advice over the last couple of years and applied steriod creams and other things - I now have hypersentsitive skin in that area - it goes red and inflamed very easily when in contact with many ingredients. 

So I applied the MCT oil/Climbazole mix to the areas that I need to apply it to and it is fine for an hour or so but then my skin gets irritated (not inflamed but it itches like I haven’t moisturised). It then gives me hell for the next 12 hours or so until it calms down again - by that I mean it is painful/itching. My thinking was that I could make a lotion that was more soothing (like cetaphil eczema lotion helps) but without the food grade oils and with climbazole - this is what Tom Busby does. It is a hope and it may not work but it is worth a shot. What do you think? I could try some soothing oils along with the MCT oil to help? 

[Donmattus]

Thanks - I’ve spoken to Tom - I can’t keep bothering him though! I just wondered if there were others who had knowledge in this area?

[Donmattus]

Yes, sorry, by MCT oil I mean capric/caprylic triglycerides

BioGreen Emulsifier is Hydroxystearyl Alcohol & Hydroxystearyl Glucoside

Leucidal Liquid SF is Lactobacillus Ferment