[Derya]

I’ve used mineral oil with great success.

[Derya]

 I’ll keep searching for that evasive emulsifier. That one pot emulsification claim really appealed to me and possibility of allergies not very promising. Thanks gents.

[Derya]

Thanks so much some of it is still over my head but then so are the trees. Thank  you

[Derya]

you could look at the ingredients of Dr Bronners castile soap. Really lovely stuff.  Quillajah Extract is plant sourced.

[Derya]

So from above comments if I wanted to use hurdle technology to get a good preservation system and have a pH of around 4, a carbomer is not the way to go to have a shelf stable lotion/cream?

[Derya]

Hi Belassi

Could you tell us why you stopped using carbomers please?

[Derya]

Ok Thanks bill & Mark

[Derya]

As the saying goes “Well you live & Learn” 
Now I understand.
Thank you Doreen, Mark and Perry

[Derya]

I think you would have a better chance of your question being answered if you asked your question by starting a new discussion under formulations.

[Derya]

Hi

Doreen theres also benzalkonium chloride in xalatan, a cosmetic ingredient also, found a website with a forum 

https://patient.info/forums/discuss/optrex-eye-drops-containing-benzalkonium-chloride-144872  

and  http://www.fegeyelashes.com/products/

maybe this maybe of some help to some formulators??  Thanks Perry and participators for the great forum.

[Derya]

https://academic.oup.com/carcin/article/28/1/199/2476224/Caffeine-and-caffeine-sodium-benzoate-have-a

Many websites with the same research but no measure of SPF anybody else aware of more info?

Thanks Bill for your input.

[Derya]

No I’m not trying to get an organic certification just trying to understand the popular items on the shop shelf, their ingredients, why they work and what the customer wants etc. so I can improve on what is available.

I’m exploring the idea of less is more and the possibility of making anhydrous low greasy lotions without the headache of a preservative. 8%  tincture 8% IPM 84% jojoba oil,

However back in June in Sydney when we had a beauty expo I asked a major supplier for an emulsifier that would emulsify an alcohol tincture with jojoba oil  to make a sprayable lotion out of a glass pump spray bottle  she couldn’t think of any emulsifier that would do the job. 

when I looked up liqueurs alas there is no ingredients list. I didn’t have much luck with lecithin.

[Derya]

thanks for your answers Mark, I don’t have any quillaja at the moment & will be looking to get a small amount to experiment with.

However now I’m wondering if I was to leave out the water entirely  and wanted to make a sprayable lotion using  alcohol based herbal tincture  at 10%             do you think that quillaja would solubilise the alcohol based herbal extract into the oil? I imagine it wouldn’t soap. Given that such a lotion is almost anhydrous would that then bypass the need for a preservative or in such a mixture would the quillaja itself need a preservative? ( usually herbal extracts are based in 45% alcohol depending on the herbal constituents being extracted) Or would this be too low a % of alcohol to act as a preservative?

[Derya]

So if I wanted to make a sprayable lotion of the above ingredients and wanted  it in a fluid form it seems xanthan gum could be left out?  

[Derya]

and to handle the alcohol content.

[Derya]

thank you Mark & Mark. So could quillaja extract be used as a co emulsifier for a lotion that had herbal alcohol extracts  to avoid using xanthan gum to stabilise?

[Derya]

Thanks Mark. Just wandering why other so called natural companies don’t use alcohol as a preservative. Is there any negatives to alcohol as a preservative apart from drying to skin?

[Derya]

thank you for your help Mark Broussard and everyone who contributed to the discussion.

[Derya]

if the containers were glass could they not be microwaved?

[Derya]

 Glad your OK too Mark Broussard. The hurricanes looked scary so much rain there and not enough here, everything is dry and it’s the bush fire season. Thank you everyone for your enlightening comments,

I don’t need to dream up BS stories I have many Best Stories to talk about from 20 years experience with consumers.

Thanks all.

[Derya]

Wow the Linatural Ultra-3 looks great thank you so much Mark Broussard. I hope I can get a supply of it locally. I’m grateful to all the commentators thank you. Last few questions, 

I do have about 15ml sample of  of phenethyl alcohol it has a powerfully  rosy aroma despite it being in a closed bottle. What’s the best usage rate as a co  preservative to give a nice rosy scent to a formulation without overpowering it, and over time does the rose scent evaporate if the product is kept in a jar with constant opening and closing.

Is there a specific pH it works best at or a certain temperature I shouldn’t go beyond or any other substance I shouldn’t use with it lest it may get inactivated and so forth? Yes is there any information specific to phenethyl alcohol that I should know about from your experience? Thank you for sharing your invaluable experiences.

 

[Derya]

Mark Broussard and Perry out of interest within your work does marketing departments ever brief you or work with you when formulating?  

[Derya]

I think I better start dreaming up my BS story in my marketing for a product yet to come.

[Derya]

THANKS. think I got a bit of reading to do this weekend.
Really appreciate your help. 

[Derya]

Thanks great eye opening statements. AMAZING!!!

Could anyone explain why money and research would go into an ingredient such as hops as secondary preservative. It costs money to bring a new product to market for a “gilded lilly” what has the manufacturers and suppliers got to gain from this especially within the context of your comments? Are they playing the game like MooGoo?

Hops Strobile Zea-Botanicals® - 3271ZB

Bio-Botanica, Inc.

INCI Name: Propanediol (and) Aqua (and) Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract

New! Conarom™ B Aromatic

Ashland

INCI Name: Phenylpropanol (and) Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract