[Cinema]

@Graillotion
@Pattsi
@nagarayeva001
       Had to update you all. Made a fresh batch today after eliminating aloe vera and success- still a little thick but pourable- and has been stable for 4 hours- looks good and will likely remain good. Thank you all for the help!!

[Cinema]

Sylarana said:

I’ve used tremella polysaccharide as a thickener. I also don’t think there is any special hydration benefit. I quite like the texture it gives to serums but HMW hyaluronic acid also feels nice and is less expensive.

@ Sylarana thanks - and yes it adds thickness to my serum too 

[Cinema]

Perry said:

If it is being added as a humectant, this is the strategy I would use.

1.  Use glycerin or propylene glycol at effective levels.
2.  Use Tremella at a tiny amount so you can put it on the label.

In this way you get the benefits of a good working product and the same marketing benefits as if you had used tremella alone. Plus, it costs a fraction of the price to make!

@ Perry thanks and a good idea

[Cinema]

@Philgels yes

[Cinema]

emma1985 said:

Cinema said:

Hi all,
      Has anyone had any experience with tremella powder- I have used it in a facial cream - first hydrating it as a 5% solution and then utilizing a percentage of it. I have had some good reviews from friends and family and has seen in a few products as well- but wasn’t sure if this is the right way of doing it. Thoughts ? 

No research on tremella mushroom as a topical as far as I know. Marketing will tell you it’s as effective as Hyaluronic Acid as a humectant.

If you are making skincare for yourself, I wouldn’t bother and just use Hyaluronic Acid. 

If you have a skincare line, it might be worth using because it is seen as a valuable ingredient in the Kbeauty consumer community.

Thanks for your input- much appreciated

[Cinema]

@Perry hi thanks for the reply, yes I am more inclined towards naturally derived materials. It has some good humectant properties ( which I have used other ingredients for as well) but trying something new. I am not a big fan of Hyaluronic acid. Yes it is expensive and I am not saying that I am committed to it- but again trying. Naturally derived materials will always deliver slower benefit, as compared to their synthetic counter parts that is for sure. That is the reason most products that may have herbal or natural ingredients ( as their marketing strategy and with good intentions, I am sure) but may also add additives that show a quicker benefit ( Vitamin C, Niacinamide, MPC, Hyaluronic acid ) coz no one will wait for long term benefits and go buy that product again- even though the marketing claims drew them to it. I am looking for a niche - natural doesn’t have to be less effective and natural does not mean that I discard all the other very essential ingredients that make up a good product as well.  Looking if anyone actually knows how to use this ingredient as I am going by my gut instinct as to how to formulate with this powder.  If I don’t get any answers, so be it

[Cinema]

Thanks @Graillotion for the tips above and thanks to all there as well.

[Cinema]

I love the line- adding a finished product to your product- not a good idea- That’s a keeper! Don’t know what I was thinking!!

[Cinema]

@Graillotion- thanks for going above and beyond to help me with all this - and giving me so much to read- I love reading up on ingredients. 

[Cinema]

Thank you all … I am hopeful that I don’t have to give up on my new found emulsifier!! - Excited for another trial batch tomorrow then!!

[Cinema]

Graillotion said:

Aloe gel…is only aloe juice that has been thickened.

Look at the product you were using….Aloe juice was the first ingredient…then thickeners.

I clicked on the link but only got a link to aloe leaf powder buying site- is there a place where I can learn how to make my own aloe gel
Also @ Pattsi- thanks I just realized Tego Care LTP is the other name for the Cream maker fluid- and I guess I am getting close to thinking the aloe might be the problem

[Cinema]

@ Graillotion- I did not know you could make your own aloe gel- will def try.

I thought only aloe juice caused issued- aloe gel never gave me problems before

[Cinema]

Graillotion said:

Cinema said:

ngarayeva001 said:

As natural as possible.. What is aloe gel made of?

I am using Purador’s organic
aloe gel- I did not see anything bad in the ingredients- is there usually something bad in these?

Ahh….starting to give us facts we can use ….
If it is the one I found on the net….it is loaded with crap…including cationic ingredients…which would cause some incompatabilities.

Make the formula without the Aloe gel…and I think all problems will …. POOF!

OK sounds good-will try 

[Cinema]

ngarayeva001 said:

Regarding 2% of essential oils: https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/4656/to-be-or-not-to-be-essential-oils-in-skincare#latest

Got it thanks

[Cinema]

ngarayeva001 said:

As natural as possible.. What is aloe gel made of?

I am using Purador’s organic
aloe gel- I did not see anything bad in the ingredients- is there usually something bad in these?

[Cinema]

Graillotion said:

Don’t overlook M 202.  I make a face cream with it….Heaven in a jar.
I think LC has if for a lot less.

But I think easier to make thinner products with L….as it does not thicken as well as 202.

Graillotion said:

Cinema said:

Got it thanks, will do. What is CSC btw as you mentioned in the previous comment

GSC is this:

Glyceryl Stearate Citrate-EMF-GLYCSTEACIT-01 (makingcosmetics.com)

It is an anionic emulsifier that really helps the Montanov’s.  Do not believe the mfg claims about being stable on their own….they all say that…and usually this is not a reality.  (As I can attest.)

Thanks for the info. Done and done- will try it for sure.
Tagging a few of the chemists on this forum to see if anyone has used Cream maker fluid before and has any suggestions? @Perry @Bobzchemist

[Cinema]

Graillotion said:

Regarding limits on EO’s….

Maybe take a look at this:

https://ifrafragrance.org/safe-use/introduction#.WVKbToqQymU

Some EO’s are NOT well tolerated on skin.

Got it thanks, will do. What is CSC btw as you mentioned in the previous comment

[Cinema]

@Grailotion, so I was looking up these new ingredients and Montanov L looks really great ( and cheaper than 202)- maybe next to try if all else fails. What is CSC btw?

[Cinema]

@Graillotion- thanks for the input but was trying to stay away from PEG compounds. I have made good lotions/ face creams with ritamulse, Gel maker NAT, Olivem 900, BTMS 25 even E wax in the past- but my lotions always are more in the consistency of creamy texture- like good for tubes but likely not thin enough for a bottle- this emulsifier claimed to be excellent for thin lotions and milks- and hence I went with it. 

[Cinema]

@ paprik- what do you mean by regulatory limits for oils?

[Cinema]

@parik, thanks for the quick reply. So this was supposed to be a cold process but since I was to use cetyl alcohol( had to use some form of thickener -and i had this or stearic acid)- I made it a hot process. Heated oil and water phases separately. kept the preservative and EO till cool down phase. Used a stick blender to mix oil into water phase. Let it cool while intermittently mixing and then added the cool down ingredients. Second time, when I used the HEC- I hydrated it first with water phase- rest the same. 

[Cinema]

@Perry, sorry and thanks- new here and hence figuring it out; will do

[Cinema]

HI,
     I am new to the forum and am from USA. I am a physician who has recently gotten interested in natural ( as much as possible) and herbal skin care formulation.  I am an amateur formulator - however have been reading and learning and experimenting for the past 9 months now. My forte is naturally derived ( as much as possible) and herbal formulations, So I wanted to try to make a pourable/ pumpable lotion and for the same- tried out Cream maker fluid ( Inci name - Sorbitan laurate, polyglyceryl-4 laurate, dilauryl citrate ) for the same.
Basic formulation

OIls ( coconut, babassu, MCT and apricot kernel)- 12%
Aloe gel- 5%
DW- 72%
Glycerin -3 %
Cetyl alcohol- 0.5
Cream maker fluid- 3.5%
Vtamin E - 1%
Essential oils- 2%
Optiphen plus- 1%
 
           But my emulsion -although came together but separated quickly. The formulation guide is to use 1.5-2.5% cream maker fluid - but I used more than that. Then I added HEC at 0.5, increased cetyl alcohol to 2% and Cream maker fluid to 6%- and of course adjust water accordingly.  The rsults still the same but my lotion now had stringy texture ( thanks to HEC) and waxy feel ( large amount of emulsifier I guess). 
         I guess I do need a natural polymer if possible like konjac or alginate for my water phase and an oil thickener too- like some out there are sapogel, sucragel, dermofeel viscolid or bio Jelly- all new to me. 
          Thoughts from you experts ? And experiences with Cream maker fluid?

[Cinema]

HI,
    I am an amateur formulator but I make my own onion infused oil directly from onion seeds- not cold processed of course and I have had some very good reviews for hair fall - used in combination with other oils and ingredients for a herbal hair oil. The point being, making it myself has me bypassing a lot of the inconsistency and short shelf life as mentioned above.