[Charlie]

Hello,

Thank you for all of your messages.

@MaidenOrangeBlossom

1. What would be your approximate recommended butter-to-oil ratio?

In my tests, I used more oil than butter. When the butter content is too high, the glide is reduced, and the application becomes uncomfortable, especially for armpit hair — I even noticed some hair being pulled out.

2. I’m planning to test a fatty alcohol: Stearyl Alcohol and/or Cetyl Alcohol.

Regarding cationic surfactants, I’ll try “AminoSensyl” from INOLEX (INCI: Brassica Alcohol, Brassicyl Isoleucinate Esylate).

3. About the wax: I’ve tried many combinations during my tests.

• I only use 1% Carnauba Wax. Any more than that makes the stick too hard and difficult to glide.

• Rice Wax has been very helpful for improving glide — that’s why I included it.

• At less than 8% Beeswax, the stick would break when pushing it up from the packaging.

• Hydrogenated Castor Oil was added just to improve glide, but I’ll test new versions without it and with fatty alcohol and/or the cationic surfactant.

Wax when mixed with the wrong ration of oil creates “petrolatum”. Which is why it’s not gliding.

4. Do you have any advice on the ideal oil-to-wax ratio?

I would use only one wax, increase butter and lower oil as a start and add a fatty alcohol.

5. Thanks — I’ll definitely try that approach.

6. Regarding powders like rice starch or magnesium hydroxide:

Do you think rice starch is better than corn starch?

Would it be beneficial to combine different starches with sodium bicarbonate or magnesium hydroxide to improve efficacy?

Thank you

@ozgirl

Yes, I know baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) can be irritating, but I haven’t yet found anything more effective.

Triethyl Citrate doesn’t seem to work well for me, and Ethylhexylglycerin is water-soluble — I can’t use it in my formula without an emulsifier.

But I’m totally open to alternatives. If there’s a combination that can replace sodium bicarbonate and really works, I’d be very happy to test it.

Thanks again to both of you!

@Aniela

Thanks I will look.

[Charlie]

Hi @ketchito and @Paprik

Thank you for your Feedbacks.

- After reading you, I read the topics about « Vitamin E (Liquid) » on this forum and I understand now why it’s better to use Tocopherol instead of Tocopheryl Acetate.

I will change my formula for Mixed Tocopherol 50%: I think for Bioxan T50.

- Polymer :

My bad, about this solubilizer crosspolymer until now, I equated crosspolymer = microplastic (Like a lot of European Customers do, I think)

I will try this natural Solubilizer when the supplier sends me the sample (If it sells it in Europe).

- Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside

I tried it but I had foam because I use > 2% and I failed in solubilizing with it currently.

I will follow @ketchito and I am thinking of mixing 2 solubilized to have a less sticky serum.

- Vitamin C :

I will use Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate as a Stable Vitamin C in the water, not ascorbic acid because this pure version isn’t stable and I want a product efficient for my customer, not Marketing Bullshit.

To stabilize Vitamin C (SAP) and Vit E (Tocopherol) 0,2/0,5%, I m thinking use 0,5% Ferulic Acid too

What do you think ?

Thank you

[Charlie]

Hello Aniela,

Thank you for your message! 🙂

Just to clarify, I don’t follow a formula blindly without adjusting it based on my experience or what I want to achieve. However, your advice has been helpful in potentially addressing my issue.

When I posted about this subject, I had already created 20 versions but hadn’t found something truly satisfactory (except for the recipient I selected). However, it wasn’t fully developed because it didn’t perform as I wanted. That’s why I decided to bring it up here, and your response was very helpful. Now, I need to create new tests/versions based on the feedback received. Some points really opened my eyes to things I hadn’t considered before (such as the use of fatty oils, for example).

Regarding the probiotic, I followed your suggestions for research and learning. I hadn’t seen a deodorant formula with probiotics like that (in an anhydrous formula) and was curious, which is why I asked. This doesn’t mean I’ll include it in my formula, but it’s an interesting idea that I hadn’t thought of, and it could be useful for future formulations.

Before posting, I did some research on this forum using keywords like “deodorant,” “stick,” “lip balm,” etc., and it was very helpful. It influenced both my initial formula and my subsequent versions.

Regarding the stick, initially, I used different waxes because my subcontractor and the wax distributor advised me to use oils with different melting points to improve the stability of the stick. That’s why I experimented with various combinations. Rice wax helped improve the glide of the formula, but now I believe I can remove it if I find the right ratio, as suggested in this post.

However, I’ll admit that sometimes I used waxes without fully understanding why, like Hydrogenated Castor Oil. But after testing it with and without, I noticed a difference, so I kept using it. After reading your responses, though, I’ve changed my approach and will try something new.

I agree with you that the sticky issue is a formulation problem, which is exactly why I want to resolve it. I’ve seen many products on the market with this sticky issue, but I definitely don’t want that for mine.

[Charlie]

Noted, thank you for your detailed explication.

[Charlie]

Yes, that’s true. What I meant to say is that it’s incompatible with a 100% anhydrous formula.

Maybe it could be useful to use it with a solubilizer, but I’m afraid the solubilizer might be sticky and irritating.

[Charlie]

Thank you for your assistance and for providing the details. I will give it a try and see what works best for me. I’m currently waiting for my Cetyl sample before continuing the test.

Regarding the probiotic, since it’s aqueous, how did you manage to mix it without an emulsifier or solubilizer? Perhaps, as you mentioned a concentration of 5% (which seems high), you included the solubilizer in your percentage?

[Charlie]

Hi @Paprik

Thank you for your answer.

- I choose Acetate :

1. Because I heard Acetate is an active ingredient for the skin and Tocopherol for antioxidant effect (and not an active ingredient for the skin).

2. Like I use only Vit E in the “oil phase”, I didn’t need an antioxidant in my formulation (anyway I believe)

- About “Polysugamulse D9” thank you, but I can’t use it because it has a crosspolymer and I blacklist polymer on my all formulas.

- I will try this ration of Solubilizer:oil = “5:1” and “10:1”

With this concentration, it will not be sticky serum?

Yes, I premix Solubilizer with Vit E, before adding the water (slowly but continuously) with 1000 rpm.

- About the patent, I saw this patent online (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7756752/) where it uses Vitamine E (acetate) + Vit C + Peptide.

Maybe you speak about another patent?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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