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@Kirk, thanks for the insight!

At this rate, I will soon earn a bachelors degree in cosmetic science, just by learning from all the tips, advice and insight here.

Experts are so helpful on this forum. Thanks so much!

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@chemist1 Thanks.

@Bill_Toge, you’re ever so resourceful, I will contact them. Thanks.

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Your story is quite interesting, Perry, and even Vitalys’ and MarkBroussard’s. When I got to the middle of your story, I sent the link to a journalist who just started working with me recently and she was inspired. She Skyped me straightaway and asked if she could go for some courses on cosmetics. I recommended your online course to her, but she’s very afraid of chemicals.

Well, my story is not too dissimilar from yours, but I am not a graduate chemist. I was born into a family business of pharmaceuticals and growing up in the midst of paracetamols, liver salts, iron tonics, baby foods, etc, there was no way I could escape the chemical world. From a tender age of five, I soon had my very own self-made first-aid kit in a disused black box of Antepar, a type of worm elizir. Soon, I was nicknamed “doctor”, which I took seriously. Naturally, I grew to like science, especially Chemistry, from which I had a distinction upon leaving high school. I aimed at studying pharmacy. But I had an accident - long story - and was discouraged from pharmacy. I went on to study Geology at college and soon got a fascination with Geochemistry, especially the science of shale, sedimentation, gold and other earth metals.

But the environment I lived in was quite influential too. My father had worked so hard to build his business, even though he wasn’t educated, he had his business acumen as sharp as any Ph.D guy from the best business schools, he had the power of foresight. Yet, almost none of the children seemed to be keen in running the family business after he retires and it weighed heavily on him. Being his favorite child, I wanted to make him happy, so I decided I was going to take it up, I could run the pharmacy as a businessman and not as a pharmacist, just like dad. But the Internet changed all that. I was fascinated by it and taught myself to use the computer and wanted to turn the pharmacy business onto an online process, yet I was limited by the technology that was available at the time, perhaps a little ahead of online marketing. But I had become fairly good with eCommerce. The pharmacy business became frustratingly difficult to run in the environment where we were stationed and my father closed it down and turned it into a water-bottling business. Then out-of-the-blues, my father was murdered; it affected a lot of things. My brother took over the family business and I went to work as an eCommerce manager for a travel company.

At about this time, my dry skin got worse and somehow, I developed a bad eczema as well, which would flare up badly around my legs. After being prescribed steroids by a Harley Street doctor, which initially seemed to help, but as time went by, the side effects began to take over. I stopped using everything and couldn’t be bothered. Then my son came along and he had his daddy’s dry skin, he would itch with almost everything we tried on him. This drove me back to my own problem with dry skin to try everything possible so as to help my son. Then one day, I came to my senses and thought, “Why don’t you use all your scientific knowledge to make something?”

I studied day and night, experimented with countless ingredients - well maybe around 100+ - before I started getting results. Then my son started using my formulations, too and he would swear by it that it was the best in the world - LOL! This was because he stopped itching after the application unlike the doctor-recommended ones. Then extended families and friends would ask for my “sample”. It was costing me a fortune to make these things. This made me figure out there must be a small market for my formulation, but I wasn’t sure how I would approach it and was not confident enough until recently when I came across Perry’s How to Launch Your Own Beauty Products late last year. It was the push I needed. It was like a nitro to my courage to give it a go. Now, while I don’t call myself a chemist or anything of that sort, I have a good idea of what I am doing and where I am going with this industry and even recently I met this passionate journalist who wants to stay wrinkle-free for 100 years - LOL… she now works with me to start my company.

Thanks Perry, I appreciate what you do for ordinary people like me. Your 45-page was quite inspiring and I hope one day we’ll meet and share lunch. I am also grateful to the other contributors/experts on this forum - the most helpful I have ever attended. I am also looking forward to your next project “Open Source Formulating”, it would be interesting.

Sorry for my long story, but Perry, you brought back a lot of memories, so I blame you for my long story.

N.B: Lisa was asking me your age, saying you look great at more than 40. I told her that maybe you’re drinking some secret youth potion from your formulations!

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@ozgirl, thanks. I will check them.

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@Kirk, is that phytic acid (IP6) the same as Inositol, which I think is a biodegradable ingredient?

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Thanks again, @MarkBroussard. Ever since it was mentioned by @Ozgirl, I’ve scoured the Internet for where to get it in the UK, anyone with the knowledge of Dissolvine GL’s availability in the UK?

Or Natrlquest E30’s suppliers in the UK?

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It was the fact that EDTA is not easily biodegradable that put me off, because I thought if that is the case my body systems may find it difficult to handle, why put it on my body when there are substitutes? I may be wrong, but that is my line of thought. Then, by the time you read around the Internet and find so many users complaining about an ingredient, then, to an extent, it throws the science out of the window.

I appreciate the contrary opinions about my bias towards EDTA. At the end of the day, it is not experts whom you are marketing to, but the public that may be biased already. It is easy to say, because of the good science behind it, I will go ahead and use it, well, I am not a multi-billion-dollar company who can spend enough to change public perception. So, while trying to birth a publicly acceptable product, I must be aware of public perception of each ingredient used.

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One thing is for sure, with all the concerns about EDTA, I wouldn’t want it to touch my body nor give it to someone else.

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The suggestion of Phytic Acid is very interesting to me. This is because most nuts and legumes are high in phytic acid and was just reading up on them recently that they might be causative to acne. I never thought they were just doing a good job as chelating agents.

I love this forum!

Thanks for all the suggestions.

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Typos and typos and lots of typos! Sigh!

I feel more like an expert writer now  

“I have (been) working on my anti-acne cream/lotion/gel for a little while now and,”

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Does that discourage or encourage you, Belassi?

I checked the list of ingredients on that page and saw this ingredient, Panthenyl Triacetate; Is that the same as GTA?

Personally, I don’t like some of the chemicals/ingredients on that list and would pass by it, as I feels some of the ingredients are not skin-friendly.

One of the key components of a successful product is gaining the trust of its users (or potential users) and that is also largely dependent on public perception, not just the chemistry.

I have working on my anti-acne cream/lotion/gel for a little while now and, Belassi, I am looking forward to your anti-acne gel on the market shelf as well.

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If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em!

It’s a shame that multi-billion dollar companies have to copy small companies instead of being much more innovative, considering their financial capacity, which will also create more jobs and feed the economy. 

AmorePacific (my first time of hearing about them) is clearly an underdog and may not be able to sustain a long court battle with Lancôme, considering they also have running battles with LG Household & Care & Dior already. Perhaps, Lancôme is strategically picking its battle with a financially “weaker” opponent.

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I have been looking at similar articles and reports (for and against):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2211302/Beauty-NOT-skin-deep-New-research-shows-expensive-cosmetic-creams-penetrate-skin-repair-within.html

Who should one believe now - sigh!

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@Belassi, I was looking at better ways of improving my formulation and remembered this thread and started reading up on GTA, then I saw this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21474353 …. Perhaps, you should consider Chinese suppliers. If the high dosage of GTA in babies is deemed safe, then this might a very good enhancement.

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@Belassi…. ever so thoughtful comments. Thanks.

That is exactly what I intend to do. I had made for me two designs - one wrap-round, which looked too-wordy like a cosmetics textbook and the other with product name and brand eye-catchy. The rest will go into the leaflet and box (I just wanted to be sure I am on track with my labelling without reading a 10,000-word of information). Yes, the cost will go up a little because of the extra cost, but I think it’s worth it, it makes it look quite presentable and clean.

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@Perry - Yes, please!
- we need a thread for strange & unusual cosmetic ingredients/chemistry.

@heraklit…. some of the ingredients on that list have been noted to be beneficial and would not using them, I mean only Squalene & DE.

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I am also working this section of my product development as well.

What do you (experienced) experts say to this: The product bottle carries some basic information such as product name, volume, list of ingredients, name of company - to minimize clutter. Then, put all the remaining information such as batch number, use instructions, further benefits, etc on an inserted “product information” A5 paper. Would that be okay?

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“The label will markedly influence your sales.” - Belassi.

Nothing truer than that in this business!

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I am beginning to like this thread.

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Camel and cow urine? Huh?

Hey, don’t you think MarkBroussard’s pee might have much more excellent properties for restoring baldness and reversing all forms of wrinkles and even scars from injuries?

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That was a really good piece of marketing expose, Perry. I particularly liked the reference - Guiding Principles on Responsible Advertising and Marketing Communication. 

But when marketers use these terms, is it wrong or misleading? I am asking/saying that because I am a marketer. As a marketer, you want your product to stand out from the competitive crowd, you put a red dress on your product to make it look different from all the other grays in the field. That gets the customer’s attention - “hypoallergenic”, what if that is the intention of the maker/marketer? Is this wrong? If he doesn’t highlight this “benefit” for the customer to see, how would the customer know?

If this is wrong, how should the marketer present his product to the public or potential customer? This is not an indictment on the article, I just am curious to know.

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@MarkBroussard…. that is great to know!

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@vitalys …. I have been thinking about trying malic acid in a formulation to see if it will synergize with MSM in carrying some ingredients through to the skin cells, what % would you suggest? 

But, I am curious at your suggestion of formic acid in formulations. Is it not a skin irritant? If it can be added successfully, it will be a preservative booster, but it’s the allergic reaction to it that worries me.

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“There is not a single toxicologist who works with/for the EWG.”

Says it all.

I used to spend my time at EWG as the chemical bible reference to check list of ingredients before I try them when I was looking for solution to my eczema/dry skin challenges. Now, I know better. But that is still what the vast majority of the public still have.

@Belassi, that will be truly a great idea!!

Now, that I am working to take my ideas into the market place, there should be a better place of reference for the average public to check what is safe and what is not based on genuine information. It’s unfortunate that most of the information are incorrect.