Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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Scale-up can be tricky - and expensive.
The most important question is… how big are your current batches? Also, can you share your current production procedure?The next biggest question is… how confident you are in future growth? The more confident you are, the more likely it will be that you can ultimately save money by skipping an intermediate step or two.As an example, if you wanted to move up a step from where I think you are, you would buy a big commercial stick blender, a heavy-duty small overhead mixer, and some large stainless steel cooking pots with lids. Total cost probably between 2-4 grand.The next step up would be to buy a pilot-sized homogenizing mixer, a pilot-sized overhead mixer, and one or two medium-sized soap mixing tanks. Total cost about 8-10 grand for decent used equipment, probably closer to $20,000 for all new.My point is that you could skip the first step, and go right to the second, if you were convinced that your business would grow to need that capacity. Doing so would save you the $2-4,000 you would have spent - but you are taking more of a financial risk. -
1) If this confuses you, why not just use pre-made sodium stearate? Working with NaOH isn’t all that safe, and you don’t safe money making it from scratch until you start making batches larger than 500 kilos.
2) Sodium Stearate is a lousy emulsifier. You will need at least one, but preferably two or more co-emulsifiers to make a stable formula. Why not just use one of the polymeric emulsifiers and save yourself massive levels of aggravation?3) Honestly, now that I think about it, if this sort of calculation confuses you, it is not safe for you to be formulating at all, even if you only use your lotions on yourself. I very strongly recommend that you stick with pre-made, pre-tested lotion bases, or better yet, learn much more about chemistry and lab safety before doing any of this sort of work. -
Just giving it a quick glance, it looks like your surfactant level is a little too low.
Have you tried any version of knock-out experiments? -
We like Rosamox here also - although we’ve recently had supply issues, ymmv.
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None that would be legal in the US, really, if you’re looking for a DHA-type effect.
When I first started my career, I came up with a very long lasting eyeshadow. Actually, it was much too long-lasting - you practically needed brillo to get it off your skin - and that was the problem. Hardly any consumers want to put any color on their skin that won’t come back off easily, preferably with soap and water - and once you make a product that comes off easily, you’ve destroyed the very long-lasting effect you were looking for.Some companies have gotten around this by making products that will only come off with a special remover - this has not gone over well. -
Take any basecoat, add 10ppm of Bitrex.
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A lot depends on how clean your components are to begin with.
Fortunately, you can test for this, by swabbing a representative sample of your components: -
Short answer? Don’t put any oil in handwash.
If you absolutely have to, 0.01 percent is the maximum I’d allow personally. -
Sadly, almost entirely devoid of useful information. Entirely an add for her book:
Personally, after a bait-and-switch like that, I would refuse to buy the book even if I needed it. -
And…there’s your problem. Manufacturing and filling costs don’t scale downward, even with private label.
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Have you tried mineral thickeners? Veegum or Laponite?
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@Belassi makes a very good point. In most cases, it’s impossible to compete on price when the large competitors can buy components in 100,000 lots, etc. So, you need to determine what sort of products in what categories consumers will pay a large premium for.
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Start with the PCPC Buyers Guide, and look at one ingredient at a time to get tradenames.
Then, look at SpecialChem and UL Prospector for the ingredient. Finally, google each tradename and read the literature that each manufacturer provides for their version.After that, we’d be happy to help if you are struggling to understand something specific. -
Remember that you have to charge at least double what you pay to make a profit. And unless you sell direct, what ever store you sell to has to charge double what they pay you to their customers.
So, if you’re paying $3.50 for a body wash, you have to sell it for $7, and the store has to sell it for $14. How many people do you think are able and willing to pay $14 for a body wash? -
To be safe, you should be testing PET (USP 51). Start at 15% Ethanol and adjust based on your test results.
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It’s not a stupid question - it’s a great question!The answer, though, comes down to the role of emulsifiers. If you make 2 creams, one at 10% oil and one at 0% oil, but both with the same amount of emulsifier that keeps the batch stable at 10% oil, that will give you a set of information that only relates to having more emulsifier than you need at lower oil percentages.If you make 2 creams, one at 10% oil and one at 0% oil and 0% emulsifier, that will give you a set of information that only relates to having the same emulsifier:oil ratio at all oil percentages.BUT…if you make 3 creams, one at 10% oil, and one at 0% oil with the same amount of emulsifier, and one at 0% oil and 0% emulsifier, that will give you a much wider set of information, since you can make a number of combinations that vary the emulsifier:oil ratio.It all depends on how involved you want to get at this. Since these are complex systems, though, this whole set of experiments should just be a guide for you to determine what level of oil you want. Once you’ve decided that, you should make a full-sized batch and run stability on it, then adjust the formula if needed.
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Data for the LINDEX system is not available online anywhere. You need to contact RITA directly to get it.
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Claire asked a follow-up, which I thought would be useful to share with everyone:
“I suspected these are the same as tinted moisturizers and it’s all marketing that makes them a “new product.” If you don’t mind, I have a few follow up questions.1) If skin tints/tinted moisturizers are the same, then how do their formulations differ from foundation? Are they thinner? Different emollients?2) Why do you suspect “skin tints” are being marketed as the hot new thing now? Is it just something marketers made up to reinvigorate sales on the same old product? Or is there a movement in the industry right now for more “natural” looking skin?”My answer:1) Skin tints and tinted moisturizers, essentially the same thing, have less coverage (opacity, ability to see the skin through the makeup). Because there’s less coverage, they also require less pigment, which means that the formula has less powder to suspend.Why is this a good thing? Because the suspending agents used in full-coverage makeup need to be stronger, able to suspend more powder, they not only take up more room in the formula, but they don’t feel light on the skin. So, a tinted moisturizer can use both less powder and less suspending agent, which produces a lighter feel. Also, a lower powder load can reduce the need for robust emulsifiers, which produces a lighter feel as well. And yes, they can also be thinner, less viscous, since a stronger suspending power tends to be associated with thicker products. And that feels nicer on skin as well.2) Yes, I think that skin tints are at best a minor tweak to tinted moisturizers. But, it’s not just a marketing trick. You see, if someone sells a “Tinted Moisturizer”, they still have to prove that it moisturizes. Otherwise, both the FDA and the FTC could go after them for violations. A clinical test to prove moisturization is expensive, and only gets more so every year. But - a “Skin Tint” isn’t claiming moisturization, so no claim = no expensive test = more profit. As far as a movement in the industry, I really can’t speak to that, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all. The re-invigorating sales bit is just a nice bonus. -
You could also revamp your procedure to avoid the long, slow cool down, but that would require a substantial investment in heat-transfer capability.
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@Perry?
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It is a standard response.
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Using something like a mister will be better than a standard spray bottle.
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Please keep in mind that most of us do this for a living, and need to pay our bills. We are happy to give advice and direction, but in the end, if you are looking for this level of information you would need to either research the ingredients, take a formulation class (the owner of this forum teaches some good ones), or hire a consultant.If you choose to do the research yourself, it would be on you to do the work. We can’t help with this unless you get stuck, and need to be pointed at a resource for further learning. This is also helpful because you will learn a lot about the materials and the manufacturing processes. In researching you will gain a great deal more experience than just being “given” the information.
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Please do your own research, and start a new discussion if you need help.
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Please keep in mind that most of us do this for a living, and need to pay our bills. We are happy to give advice and direction, but in the end, if you are looking for this level of information you would need to either research the ingredients, take a formulation class (the owner of this forum teaches some good ones), or hire a consultant.If you choose to do the research yourself, it would be on you to do the work. We can’t help with this unless you get stuck, and need to be pointed at a resource for further learning. This is also helpful because you will learn a lot about the materials and the manufacturing processes. In researching you will gain a great deal more experience than just being “given” the information.