Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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Note: It’s possible to take public transportation to/from the convention, but it’s actually cheaper to rent a car.
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Maybe this explains it better
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I’ve highlighted the pistons that are visible in the clear packaging. You can see that they have two sealing surfaces, one top and one bottom. The extra cost of the packaging is probably offset by the lower cost of preservatives and anti-oxidants required.
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Wear comfy shoes
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Just a quick scan of the list gave 14 vendors https://nyscc.org/suppliers-day/exhibitor-resources/2015-suppliers-day-exhibitor-list
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David, go to the NYSCC Suppliers Day in Elizabeth next month.
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Just be careful.
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budget?
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OK. In a traditional dispenser, the container is rigid, the pump is set up so that a vacuum is created in the dispensing tube, then atmospheric air presses down on the bulk, and the product is extruded through the tube.
In an airless dispenser, the bottom is not the same piece as the sides. Instead, it acts as a piston, so that when the pump creates a vacuum in the tube, atmospheric pressure moves the piston up, allowing bulk to dispense without exposing it to more air.
I know I haven’t explained this very well, sorry.
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http://www.wwpinc.com/primary-packaging/
In the long run, it would probably be cheaper to buy the whole setup: formula, testing, filling, packaging, labeling, regulatory - from a contract manufacturer.
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Editing cannot be done solely by you at this point, but you can ask @Perry if he can help.
I understand your frustration, but you have to understand what you’re asking for. A lab like you describe, that has not just a single formulator, but a team of chemists, etc. is a facility that has cost at least a couple of million dollars to set up, and has an operating budget of at least $400,000 per year. That means that they have to earn more than $1,000 per day. Every single day of the year. Based on this, how much do you think they’ll charge for your project?
I work in a nicely equipped lab, but it belongs to my employer, and the only projects that get done there are for his benefit. I (very rarely) do some consulting on the weekends. My home lab fits in a closet - I’d never take pictures of it. My draw as a consultant comes from the fact that I’ve been a professional cosmetic chemist for over 20 years, not because I have a pretty lab. How much do you think I’d charge for your project?
If you can only afford my help, and not the help of the consultants with staff and extensive labs, you’ve got an unresolvable problem, because there is much more business available for cosmetic chemist consultants than there are consultants to take it.
If you have more than shoestring funding, I think your best bet is probably an outfit like Kolmar: http://www.kolmar.com/index.html They have dozens of chemists on staff, and well-equipped labs, and a world-class manufacturing capability.
If you have minimal funding, your best bet is to get a patent first.
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You are looking for what is essentially a top-shelf consulting and a high-end manufacturing company.
To engage the services of someone like that, you will need to have substantial (6-figure) funding already in place before you talk to them, since you will essentially be purchasing an entire turnkey business.I would personally suggest Irwin Palefsky, Mark Chandler, or Tom Vichroski, but anyone on this list should be able to help you: -
As I understand the FDA regulations, the instant you add any level of any surfactant that’s not traditional soap (metallic salt of a fatty acid) your product stops being soap and becomes a cosmetic instead, and subject to FDA oversight. You can still CALL it a soap, but you must follow all of the cosmetic regulations that you wouldn’t have to follow if it was a conventional soap.
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If it’s just for your own use, try it and see - but it might destabilize your emulsion if it’s o/w.
Commercially, I would strongly recomend against it. -
Useful articles:
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First off, per US FDA regulations, your “May Contain” section can only list pigments and/or dyes. Pigment substrates are a gray area, but emollients, carriers, preservatives, etc.? Strictly prohibited.
Secondly, you have an inverse (w/o) emulsion, but not a single pigment suspending agent, with the possible exception of Silica (which is a very poor suspending agent by itself). Of course your pigments are falling out of suspension - you have nothing there to keep them in suspension.The good news is that there are thickeners/suspending agents available for your oil phase that will fix this problem. The bad news is that it will not be possible to fix your stability problem without significantly changing your skin feel.I’d try Ganex WP-660 first, but there are others. -
Have you looked at the volatile dimethicones? I know you said that silicones were too oily, that’s why I told you that you wouldn’t find alternatives, and clearly I misjudged your level of expertise. But I have a bad habit of not realizing that there are products that people don’t know about, so… any dimethicone under 2 cst or so is volatile:
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First, find a commercial soap that works for you, then tell us what’s in it. There are a great many soap ingredients that dry out skin to one extent or another - it is an unavoidable side effect of cleansing skin.
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@Perry, didn’t we have an arrangement with UL Prospector to give all our forum members access?
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Fragrance/perfume reactions are always my first suspect when something like this happens, but you didn’t list any, so I can only assume you’re unfragranced.After eliminating fragrance, my next suspects are always the natural ingredients. To me, the most likely culprit is actually the shea butter, since I’ve seen old shea butter turn bright yellow by itself. You also have a very high percentage of Vitamin E, which is available in many versions. A natural version is also likely to turn yellow eventually
Sorbitol typically browns with heat, so it would be less likely to go yellow. Everything else is much less likely.
My typical response to an unexpected stability event is to prepare a set of knock-out batches and put them all up on stabilitiy, in order to positively identify the culprit. -
“calculating” or formula computations are so entirely unreliable as to be worse than useless.
Substitute Suga®Nate 160NC for the glucosides, to improve mildness. Good starting formulas here: -
A MS in biology from any university will have virtually no advantage over a BA in biology when it comes to getting a job anywhere in the cosmetic industry. In fact, it might be a disadvantage because the assumption will be that someone with a MS degree will expect a higher salary than someone with a BS.
If you want to formulate cosmetics, and you don’t have a BS in chemistry, or a degree in Chemical engineering, one of the specific degrees is your best bet to do this. A number of the programs offer internships that will help you decide what area you want to work in.If you enjoy academic research, on the other hand, you might want to stick with biology. Industrial R&D is something very, very different. -
If you find mineral oil, silicones, and even cyclomethicone too oily, there are no possible alternatives to isododecane available that are acceptable for use in lip-area cosmetics.
But…the fact that you’re telling me that you are going to dissolve the colorants you plan on using in your lipstick, and that you think doing so will give you a matte effect on lips also tells me that you do not have the knowledge and/or expertise needed to formulate a matte liquid lipstick successfully yet. So my recommendation is to study the patents and literature related to lipstick formulation generally, and matte lipstick specifically, before you worry about not being able to get isododecane. Very likely, the shortage will be over by the time you need that solvent. -
Try SLES at 30%