Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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Looks like our only hope is to get enough from Ashland in sample sizes.
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Did I mention the desperately looking part? Does anyone know if any of the smaller sites, like makingcosmetics.com, sell this stuff?
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Try talking to BASF distributors to see if they can get one of their customers to sell you or trade you 10 pounds of the Luviset.
The folks at DeWolf/Glenn http://dewolfchem.com/why-dewolf/koda-distribution-group/ and McCullough & Associates http://mccanda.com/ have been helpful to us in the past on issues like these. It helps if you are already a customer, (but it’s not impossible if you aren’t) and there’s a bit of an implicit quid pro quo involved - you will be expected to help out others of their customers/manufacturers if they find themselves in a jam.
Have you checked with BASF directly to see if they can help? They might even be able to pull enough out of their sample stock to get you by.
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Please explain your question further, and give details on the “methicone” grade. There are a dozen or more different methicone grades, and they’re soluble in different things.
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Now that my memory has been jogged, let me explain what I’ve been told by the US mica/pearl pigment manufacturers.
They currently have a long-running legal dispute with the FDA. Their stance is that combining (perfectly legal cosmetic grade) mica with (perfectly legal cosmetic grade) colorants does not result in a “new” colorant that needs to be safety tested and/or certified.
The FDA says that it does. The law and existing regulations make this a grey area. I’ve also heard (unverifiably) that the FDA is not at all sure they’ll win if it goes to court. This battle may continue for decades, since there is a great deal of money involved.
Now for glitter.
Glitter is made by combining sheets of very thin aluminum foil with very thin sheets of plastic. Either the aluminum can be colored (anodized) or the plastic can be colored, or both can be colored, or neither. The combined sheets are then cut/chopped into small bits.
The aluminum part of the glitter is an approved and tested cosmetic colorant. The plastic is not, but it may or may not be acceptable as a non-colorant cosmetic ingredient, so combining them is another grey area. That means that silver/non-colored glitters might be legal.
The big problem shows up when we look at colored glitter. To fit into the same grey area that the colored micas are in, the colors used to dye/pigment the plastic, and to dye/anodize the aluminum MUST be FDA certified as cosmetic colorants before they are used to make the glitter.
They NEVER are. The glitter manufacturers can’t afford to make batches of glitter just for cosmetics, and FDA certified colors are a lot more expensive than non-certified colors, so they will not be used - it’s just not worth it to the manufacturers.
This is what makes colored glitters orders of magnitude more illegal/dangerous than colored micas, and it’s why I strongly suspect that the FDA will eventually go after glitter long before they will go after colored mica.
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When I’ve treated this problem for myself, I’ve made a combination of anhydrous lanolin, petrolatum, and jojoba oil or jojoba esters.
This is not a commercial product - it does not have an elegant afterfeel - so the trick is to slather the stuff all over your hands before bedtime, then cover your hands with thin white cotton gloves so you don’t get the goop all over the sheets. (Lestoil or Simple Green will wash it out, though) 3 or 4 nights of this and my skin is fine. Those with less tolerance for rough skin may want to try a few more nights of treatment.
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Interesting. I hadn’t realized FDA considered both mica-based and plastic based color additives non-permitted.
Most glitter has the added disadvantage of being colored with unapproved/non-certified dyes and pigments, a problem that the mica-based pigments deliberately don’t have.
I’m guessing it will take a lawsuit, public outrage, and/or one or more congress-criters to get the FDA to enforce the law.
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Wow, this lady has lost it…
I think the key to confronting her is to say that what she’s using is not designed for cosmetics, and has never been tested on cosmetics, and is therefore invalid and completely useless.
Also, mold “from the forest” is very much different from the common molds known to contaminate cosmetics. Actual valid testing in a real testing laboratory would very quickly be able to tell the difference.
For anyone to take her seriously, she needs to send samples to an independent microbiological testing lab for a plate count. Here’s a list:
http://www.scconline.org/referrals/cat/testing-laboratories/It probably won’t wind up costing her more than $100 - but I doubt she’ll do it unless/until the government gets involved. And by then it may be too late for her.
It would be very interesting to find out what she intends to do when/if the FDA comes by to inspect her manufacturing facility.
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First, like I said before, what she’s selling is illegal to be sold for use on skin in the US. I can find the regulations if you need them. So, your legal threat trumps any legal threat she might make, big time.
Secondly, she’s making her cakes with an alcohol slurry that is then evaporated, so they are sterile when she’s done. But, because she has no preservatives, they will grow mold and/or bacteria whenever they come in contact with mold. Just because she has no mold on the samples she has in her warehouse doesn’t mean that what she’s sold her customers haven’t grown mold. People have mold spores and bacteria on their fingertips, so mold can grow just from a touch.
As a cosmetic manufacturer (even though she’s selling illegal cosmetics), she has a responsibility to sell a product that will be safe during use, not just something that’s safe until it’s taken out of it’s package.
Whether or not her home mold test can or cannot detect the mold is irrelevant, unless she’s saying that she’s tested samples of potentially moldy products that people have sent back to her. It perfectly possible that what she’s selling is completely uncontaminated - but that’s only the first half of her responsibility. She’s required to sell something that STAYS uncontaminated, even if someone uses dirty/contaminated fingers to apply it.
It’s also possible that some of her products are clean and mold free, and some of them are not. Maybe she was a little sloppy one day. If she does not have a policy of routinely sampling and testing her products for mold and micro contamination at least daily, she’s breaking yet another FDA regulation.
It’s times like these I sort of wish I was a lawyer - this lady could make me so much money if I sued…
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Urea cream repairs: Aquaphor, Eucerin.
Silicone protects: gloves in a bottle, invisible gloves, etc.
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@Perry? Do you know where they are?
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pigment dispersions are also available in nitrocellulose chips, but that won’t help your drying time problems.
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Kolmar, Lady Burd, etc.
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None of the nail polish companies disperse their own pigments. The trick is to find a company willing to sell small volumes
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You haven’t gotten a quick response because I’m old and slower than I used to be. Your best bet is going to be trying castor oil pigment dispersions:
http://www.sensient-cosmetics.com/pageLibre000105e3.aspxor plasticizer pigment dispersions:
http://pantechnology.rtrk.com/?scid=1089990&kw=7081387&pub_cr_id=70784784077 -
You’re going to have to tell us how you define “natural”, first. And then, we need to know if there are any volatile ingredients in your formula.
“Natural”, anhydrous, non-volatile, and film-forming are sadly not things that go together well at all. You will have to lose at least one, and probably two, of the above parameters.
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Thanks, @Mike_M.
The basic point, I think, is that it’s execution and follow through that adds value to an idea. A great idea sitting in your own head is worth nothing until you let it out. The more structure, (formula, manufacturing instructions, business plan, marketing strategy, industry contacts, etc.) you can put behind an idea, the more valuable it becomes.
It turns out that the good quality structure/commitment/execution piece is so valuable, in fact, that it can make a lot of money off of a mediocre or even a bad idea. This is true in a lot of industries, not just ours.
But if you look at the chart and work it through, you see that a great idea can turn what would be a $1 million dollar business with a weak idea but great execution into a $20 million dollar business. That’s quite a return for just an idea that’s worth very little on its own.
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I’m going to fall back on the old standby: If you don’t know enough about your problem to even formulate a question about it, you need to hire a consultant to help you.
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After a little research, the company mentioned is called Glitter Injections. I can’t find a single thing on their website that is legal to sell in the US as a cosmetic/FDA regulated product.
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I wouldn’t trust it. Any number of commercial labs can run a reliable test for mold. Home mold tests aren’t reliable.
As for this lady, first, what’s she’s selling is flat-out illegal to sell for use on skin in the US. They are misbranded/adulterated and subject to confiscation, recall and destruction for using unapproved colorants. And, her “may contain” section is illegal also. I really hope someone reports her to the FDA and shuts her down quickly.
Second, there’s nothing in that ingredient list to keep mold from growing. This is a massive lawsuit just waiting to happen. If we have any lawyers listening, this lady could literally lose everything she owns, very easily.
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Glad to see you’re here!
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It has a lot to do with crystal formation. (I’ll explain more, be patient)
Lipstick has to be a matrix - a mesh network of linked wax crystals woven through a semi-solid gel. Too much wax, and you have a waxy lump with no payoff - too little, and you have a gooey mess with no structure.
To pull this off, not only do you have to have just the right wax mixture, and just the right amount of wax to gel ratio, but your wax crystals also need to be just the right size. Too small, and your wax matrix won’t form, too large, and your stick will feel gritty on the lips.
So, how do you get your wax matrix to be near perfect? Since wax crystals grow larger slowly, only start to grow as your lipstick mass cools down below it’s melting point, and (if you’ve formulated your lipstick properly), will not grow at all at room temperature, you can precisely control the size of your wax crystals by limiting the time they have to grow. You can do that by chilling your lipstick mold as soon as the lipstick is poured. Some folks even pre-chill their molds.
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I think we’ve posted them on here on a few occasions. It’s not really that hard to set up on excel. What specific functions are you looking for?
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All I can think is that these people have REALLY bad lawyers.
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Parsols have some secondary benefits, especially Parsol SLX:
http://www.dsm.com/markets/personal-care/en_US/products/products-ranges/parsol.html