Bluebird
Forum Replies Created
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What is ULP? ????
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Hey, did using lactic acid to adjust to such low pH turned out to be non-irritating?
To your question, a lame suggestion is to look at Lume’s stick deodorant and see what they have there, since Lume’s stuff is low pH and they started from cream-based formula but ended up w/ sticks.
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” I would like to think…that broad spectrum meant you had control of Gram +, Gram -, and YMF. Clearly this is not the case.”
In microbiology/biological science/healthcare, broad spectrum indeed most often does NOT mean it covers against all of the above.
For instance, an antimicrobial substance that just kills several species of Gram-negative bacteria will still be defined as a broad host spectrum, unless those species are all very closely related.
So it is in fact not just cosmetics industry.
In healthcare, in fact, broad spectrum is not always desirable, and something that kills all of the above categories can be a nightmare that disrupts the microbiome.
Something like ethanol may be broad spectrum against bacteria and YM for cosmetics. (What is “F” in YMF?)
In my humble opinion, for cosmetics, “broad spectrum” should be defined specifically with regards to the five challenge test organisms. (E.coli Pseudomonas, Aspergillus, Candida and Staph). That would be so straightforward…
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What are you using this LipidSoft™ Lactic for?
You said an emollient-was moisturizing the primary purpose? If so, why not things like glycerin?
Elsewhere I also read that this has a similar effect as lactic acid but is oil-soluble.
Were you trying to lower pH using this in emulsified deo?
Surprising that this was so effective as deo when applied neat.
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Thank you for sharing.
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That is good to know. Thank you
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Brilliant.
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I see there really are quite a few cool people on this forum and I’m delighted to find them.
Great to know about mandelic vs lactate, hours of lasting, etc.
The funk part gets me to think about Amazon one star reviews on Lume, which complains that Lume is effective against B.O., but on its own, it sticks and smells like B.O. when being applied. I suspect that is from mandelic acid, or possibly reaction with other things.
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Ah, that’s good to know, so that’s the acid that comes in a powdery form! I have been hoping something like that would exist, you know, the opposite of baking soda in terms of the pH but similarly in a powder form. I don’t get this part though (“they have a claim”)- can you explain?
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What do you mean? Did you mean mandelic acid in lume is sold as powders and that’s why they use it?
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After I read Abdullah’s comment I searched, and found that the minimum inhibitory concentration for Staph is more than twice higher than that of E. coli and Pseudomonas. So his comment may be true (I hope so).
https://www.sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2010.00619.x
But I will have to test whether it’s of sufficient power using the bacteria myself.
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Are things like this custom-made containers?
I’m not gonna lie, though, this looks amazingly effective BUT a bit scary as I have a slight trypophobia (afraid of such patterns).
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Thank you, I just ordered it to try.
My formulation is a low pH (~4) water type.
Do you know whether people would normally directly dissolve phenoxyethanol into the final product (did read low solubility in water); dissolve in Tween 80 or such and then put into the rest; or use some other method?
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I haven’t seen this thread from the FDA, thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I look forward to the day when I “out” my thing and hear your final verdict. ????
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Yeah, I was reading from there.
So I’m making deo sprays, I do want to include stuff that helps cooling to hopefully cut down sweat like menthol or menthyl lactate, but I will be careful with claims around that, if any.
I think you have seen a lot in the industry to know that “changes your microbiome” is unlikely to be considered a drug claim in cosmetics when the product actually does that. Thanks!
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Oh that was Lume, haha! Good to know its precise pH finally-they didn’t tell me when I asked.
Ah so their stick was anhydrous. They do have this other clever stick-like shape that is actually creamy that comes out in a small amount if you turn the wheel so maybe that’s the alternative reference for the OP?
Graillotion, how did you test these things (ex, sensitivity) once you made them? Did you just test on yourself and friends and family? That’s the next hurdle for me.
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That’s awesome, thank you!
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Yes, interesting analysis-think that’s true.
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I have a concrete reason to believe that my thing changes people’s microbiome.
Nevertheless, FDA says:
articles (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals
are drugs.
Are antiperspirants and sunscreens considered cosmetics?
Because the FDA also has this funny statement:
“Among other cosmetic/drug combinations are […]deodorants that are also antiperspirants, and moisturizers and makeup marketed with sun-protection claims. Such products must comply with the requirements for both cosmetics and drugs.”
I’m a bit confused here-do they mean that if you want to sell an antiperspirant or sunscreen you need to show human data a priori?
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What’s BS? That it changes your microbiome? It’s definitely not a BS. I’m a microbiome scientist.
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Hey, have you ever even loosely compared with and without Cyclosorb?
Do you feel Cyclosorb adds the benefit? I’m really curious to know.
I have had mixed feelings about cyclodextrins because on one hand they can catch odor
but on the other hand it seems like they can “hold on to” odor longer.
IF your spray deo was unscented, and it worked well with Cyclosorb, it sounds really promising.
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why not.
Just kidding, because that itself can be the source of bacteria.
You can say “but don’t you add antibacterial preservative anyway?”
But I have a specific reason why I want this separately sterile.
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Okay. Are you saying that based on concern for hydroxamine as well?
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Okay, pH is 4 to 4.5, aqueous solution. Any problem?
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No, they also don’t say “you can save cost by cutting it to half and it still works fine.”
In Korea, it seems manufacturers just know it as 0.4%. Isn’t that a bit surprising. But from what I’ve seen, cosmetics regulation is more stringent in general in Korea than in the US. So what I mean, based on this, I have a reason to think that it may actually work?! But I’m still surprised. And no, I haven’t seen data, but know that if there were no data, these other people who do use 0.4% wouldn’t have passed the test by the gov. ☹