[Bluebird]

Thank you, “fixed,” stiff armpit hair was something that didn’t come to my mind, haha.

I just want my active ingredients to be more around in general and not get lost/diluted out quickly by sweat. Ideally, something that would help them “hang on” to skin more. Functionally, similar to phenoxyethanol and triethyl citrate for perfume as you said (I didn’t know these do that-thanks for telling me about them)-equivalents for other active ingredients. I was wondering whether there was a general category or a type of “something” that helps active ingredients stay longer on skin.

I suppose water type DO is the worst with that regard, compared to the hard solids or cream types that seem inherently harder to dilute away.

[Bluebird]

@gordof do you know something that’s good to use for a deodorant?

Would it prevent sweating and clog pores/sweat glands (in good or bad ways)?

[Bluebird]

Thank you, I think this may be the category I was looking for-film formers.

[Bluebird]

Cationic emulsifiers because the skin is negative? That’s very interesting-I’ll look into it. I want to clarify but I am not sure which part was unclear to you so I’ll just try describing in different words. I’m looking for things that help ingredients stay longer and not get easily lost from rubbing, sweating, etc. I guess this can be done via film formation as was pointed out by @gordof , or something that helps ingredients “stick” better to the skin significantly.

[Bluebird]

I see. What do you think of the stability of such an ester in water? I cannot say for sure.

[Bluebird]

@Graillotion

I have a new thought about the part you wrote on C12-13 Alkyl Lactate and want to hear your thought as a chemist.

When applied neat, perhaps this ester reacts with water only on the pits->becomes carboxylic acid and ethanol via hydrolysis, and kills bacteria OR becomes ethanol and lactic acid via some bacterial enzyme and kills via lactic acid.

But when included to only a few % of your product, perhaps just not enough in amount for that reaction,

OR it already hydrolyzed within your product and when applied to the pits, unlike when applied neat, does not have a high local concentration of carboxylic acid and ethanol.

[Bluebird]

What are you using this LipidSoft™ Lactic for?

You said an emollient-was moisturizing the primary purpose? If so, why not things like glycerin?

Elsewhere I also read that this has a similar effect as lactic acid but is oil-soluble.

Were you trying to lower pH using this in emulsified deo?

Surprising that this was so effective as deo when applied neat.

[Bluebird]

pH of 4-5 (TBD), and the other anti-bacterial parts, also TBD.

[Bluebird]

I plan to use potassium sorbate.

I was thinking ahead while waiting for Aspergillus to arrive for me to test. 🙂

[Bluebird]

Having Gram + only vs Gram - only preservatives help if I want to do a challenge test with both kinds into the product, but plate out separately and do selection.

[Bluebird]

Thanks, good to know phenylethyl alcohol.

And oh, I meant by “change the microbiome”: I do believe that many if not most deodorants do affect the microbiome, synthetic and “natural” deodorants alike.

[Bluebird]

I tried dissolving in EtOh to make the ~40% stock solution and added to create the final concentration of 0.1%.

It led to immediate particle formation when put into the final liquid.

[Bluebird]

Why do you say so?

[Bluebird]

Are you being sarcastic?

It’s a preservative

[Bluebird]

An update: got actual data from Inolex, stability of CHA at pH4: stable, with no detection of hydroxamine via mass spec.

[Bluebird]

Okay.

EPC-K1 manages odor even when there are bacteria.

Other ingredients try to kill bacteria.

But bacteria make a comeback-for some people, easily.

It is a matter of always try to kill vs having an additional weapon as an additional layer.

Blatant killing without additional measure often does not work well in fighting microbes.

However, I’d like to hear what are such awesome deo recipes you mention.

Do you know ingredients that would lead to at least 48h odor protection?

Please share, I have a lot to learn.

[Bluebird]

But why ethylhexylglycerin there?

[Bluebird]

They would have different effects that do matter.

But EPC-K1 is also used for cosmetics already, so not just pharma.

I believe it’s just expensive now because it’s uncommon.

[Bluebird]

Thank you for sharing.

[Bluebird]

That is good to know. Thank you

[Bluebird]

Brilliant.

[Bluebird]

I see there really are quite a few cool people on this forum and I’m delighted to find them.

Great to know about mandelic vs lactate, hours of lasting, etc.

The funk part gets me to think about Amazon one star reviews on Lume, which complains that Lume is effective against B.O., but on its own, it sticks and smells like B.O. when being applied. I suspect that is from mandelic acid, or possibly reaction with other things.

[Bluebird]

Ah, that’s good to know, so that’s the acid that comes in a powdery form! I have been hoping something like that would exist, you know, the opposite of baking soda in terms of the pH but similarly in a powder form. I don’t get this part though (“they have a claim”)- can you explain?

[Bluebird]

What do you mean? Did you mean mandelic acid in lume is sold as powders and that’s why they use it?

[Bluebird]

After I read Abdullah’s comment I searched, and found that the minimum inhibitory concentration for Staph is more than twice higher than that of E. coli and Pseudomonas. So his comment may be true (I hope so).

https://www.sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2010.00619.x

But I will have to test whether it’s of sufficient power using the bacteria myself.