[belassi]

What? Where did you get that? EWG? Skin Deep? Nothing wrong with EDTA.

[belassi]

It will be similar, but Black Soap is literally made using palm ash and shea butter.

[belassi]

I have the strong feeling that if you search the BASF formulation database on UL Prospector, you will find this formulation.

[belassi]

There’s also DeWolf Chemical in the USA

LOI: (these are all guesses)

Water, 

glycerin, 3%

hexyldecanol, partially esterified Guerbet alcohol - I’ve heard these are a bit special. Needs research. and hexyldecyl laurate (Cetiol PGL). 

dicaprylyl carbonate, Cetiol CC:

ethylhexyl palmitate, - possibly Cetiol 868

<2% coco-glucoside, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, cetearyl alcohol, sunflower seed oil, <1% hydroxyethyl acrylate/sodium acryloyldimethyl taurate copolymer, jojoba seed oil, butylphenyl methylpropional, Shea butter, caprylyl glycol, <0.1% citral, coconut alcohol, geraniol, limonene, linalool, magnesium PCA, panthenol, parfum (fragrance), phenoxyethanol, phenylpropanol, polysorbate 60, sodium PCA, sodium stearoyl glutamate, squalane, zinc PCA

[belassi]

Black soap from Africa - it’s made with shea saponified with ash, so it’s mainly a potassium soap. I have tried it myself. 

As members of this forum know, I do have problems obtaining ingredients, there are many available in the USA that I can’t buy easily. However, Cetiol is not a problem for me. BASF Mexico supplies it and so, I can get it from one of my factors, namely, Conjunto Lar. 

In the UK I would probably be able to obtain it. In Japan, I have no idea unfortunately. Probably Conjunto Lar would ship you a couple of kilos at your own risk. They are good people. I will take a look at your LOI and get back to you. Therapeutic cosmetics are a speciality for me.

[belassi]

And please list the ingredients of that product so that I can check. I note that it’s a Greek company. I think it is unlikely that those Cetiol components are responsible for the improvement you noted. They are just emollients.

[belassi]

No idea where you are, so that would be useful.

Have you thought of regulating the production of sebum using (say) an active such as Sebaryl?

The cause of seborrheic dermatitis is thought to be due to an abnormal inflammatory response to a yeast normally found on the skin: Malassezia. Like eczema, many factors can aggravate seborrheic dermatitis including stress, change of seasons, illnesses, and heavy alcohol use, to name a few.

I would make a non-comodegenic cream, possibly a gel, have to think about it, containing tea tree oil to eliminate the yeast, Sebaryl to regulate sebum production, and aloe vera in high concentration to act against inflammation.

I’d also look closely at your cleaning routine. Are you using store-bought soap? If so it is a synthetic with a pH around neutral. Change to a natural soap (cold process or hot process) (pH = 10). Yeast likes acidic it hates alkaline. Have you tried using African “black” soap?

[belassi]

I really dislike treatments like that one. Anything with benzoyl peroxide = old fashioned, harsh, nasty stuff.

[belassi]

Thanks Mark. I think, then, that I’ll try to establish the minimum solubilization requirement with different possibles: Polysorbate-20, Polysorbate-80, Glyceryl cocoate, and anything else I have on the shelf that seems appropriate. 

[belassi]

Hilarious! I searched for GTA on EBay and this came up!

After researching sources, it seems pretty expensive stuff, say $400 per kilo, so I think I’ll forget about this.

[belassi]

Great! Good to hear that. Now do some customer testing.

[belassi]

Interesting, thanks. Those aromaland products are a pretty price!

[belassi]

The stability of vitamin E depends on its form, dl-α-tocopherylacetate

being the most stable. Vitamin E, occuring naturally

in foods in the form of a-tocopherol, oxidizes slowly when

exposed to air. However, vitamin E added in the form of α-

tocopheryl acetate shows excellent retention in wheat flour

(see Tables 2 and 3). Losses of vitamin E occur only during

prolonged heating such as in boiling and frying

In other words, no problem. Besides which, adding it during cool down would probably present an emulsification difficulty.

[belassi]

I’ve looked into this a while ago and I did find a system that you might be able to use.

Bare mineral makeup is generally regarded as a high-end product but it doesn’t seem that difficult to make. I investigated the pricing and discovered that I could source milled oxides at quite a low price for the colours; those plus zinc, titanium oxide, and a few other agents, can be combined as free powder to make a bare mineral makeup. The next question was how to dispense. I discovered a fancy dispenser-brush with pump available in China for $5 per unit. It comprises a clear plastic tube with a push button pump at one end and a brush at the other, very handy to carry in a handbag.

[belassi]

OK. If there is any basis at all in this idea it should be possible to develop a hypothesis as to the causative agent(s). 

For instance this:

616 Chemical Constituents of Camel’s Urine

A separate experiment was undertaken to identify the character

of the organic acid considered to be hippuric acid. A specimen

was prepared by Roaf’s method which when decolorized and

recrystallized five t.imes from water, yielded a product giving

the characteristic melting point, nitrogen content, and other

properties of hippuric acid.

[belassi]

What organic colorants could I use

I understand that crushed beetles are to be found in most lipsticks. That’s pretty organic I should think…

[belassi]

Aha. Good to know I am not the only one having trouble solubilising it. Thanks. Those two you mentioned are both Dow Chemical products, unfortunately not obtainable here. Still, it seems that my 3.5 to 1 and 2 to 1 ratios are not “out the window” then? Regarding ethanol, I don’t want to use that in the product, too drying.

[belassi]

There is also the ingredient sourcing problem to consider. I would not want to be the employee who has to follow the camels around holding a bucket ready for the golden stream.

Not to mention the er, religious problem. I think there might be a marketing issue convincing your customers that only the urine from male camels is being used: 

The Prophet said: “The urine of a baby boy should have water sprinkled upon it. The urine of a baby girl is to be washed off”. [Abu Dawood, Nasai and Ibn Majah].

And in a more general sense, it may prove difficult to convince the more religious customers that no trace of impurity remains after shampooing the hair…

[belassi]

Presentation is 90% of the initial sales appeal. Whether you make a second sale to the same customer depends on the product performance, but even then, consumers “want to believe” claims. The problem is how to make the label attractive without having it crammed with LOI in 6 point font.

I got around the problem by using two labels for products such as shampoo. The fancy label on the front gives product name, company details (brand large, address small) and claims. The rear label has the LOI and use guidelines. Your idea is also good, but how will you attach the info leaflet? Yes you can put the product into its own box and include the leaflet but packaging costs will go up. However, a boxed product arguably has a higher-end appeal.

[belassi]

Later in the forum:

  “My shampoo is releasing a strong smell of ammonia and cats are attracted to me … “

[belassi]

Step 2 is standard operating procedure, sterilisation.

[belassi]

Two questions.

1. Some fragrances will thin a shampoo; others will thicken. Most often it’s in the direction of thinner. Just one of those things and it is the reason why I have a large number of fragrances on my shelves that I actually don’t use in anything. I advise obtaining samples from a fragrance supplier and testing.

2. When adding the fragrance it is important to add it to the surfactants BEFORE dilution with water to make sure the fragrance is properly emulsified. If you’ve done this and still get a cloudy shampoo then either:

a) You are not using a surfactant that is a good enough emulsifier; or

b) That fragrance is not compatible to make a clear shampoo.

[belassi]

Well, it IS a soap, so you’re bound to get foaming when mixing. You’re implying that it is too thick for the air bubbles to migrate to the surface and disappear? That would be a production, not a formulation problem, I think.

[belassi]

The shea butter is prone to cause this. Try adding an ester.

[belassi]

aloe doesn’t make a formula acidic. I have never noticed any discernible change in pH adding even large aloe vera concentrations.