Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Obtaining Cetiol PGL for personal use?

  • Obtaining Cetiol PGL for personal use?

    Posted by Andy1987 on January 17, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    Hi everyone!

    My name’s Andy. I’m here because I’m trying to formulate a lotion to treat a very painful (and often embarrassing) facial skin condition called seborrheic dermatitis, which I’ve suffered from for the past 5 years. Over this time I’ve bought hundreds of creams and lotions, spending well over a thousand pounds in the process. (In case you’re wondering, I’ve also seen innumerable doctors and dermatologists, all of whom simply prescribe skin-thinning steroid creams, despite the fact that this is an unsustainable treatment for such chronic conditions as this.) Bizarrely, the only product to have effectively treated this condition was a small tube of Korres hand & body lotion that I was given free on a flight from Korea to the UK a few summers ago. I used this sparingly for the last two or three years, but it’s now run out and has unfortunately been discontinued.

    I have reason to believe that two of the main components of this lotion (hexyldecanol and hexyldecyl laurate - AKA Cetiol PGL - and dicaprylyl carbonate) were responsible for its effectiveness in tackling the dermatitis, and, having decided to go down the route of making my own moisturizer, I’ve been trying desperately to get my hands on one at least of the above named chemicals. I’ve emailed lots of distributors but none have responded, so now I’m turning to you with this question:

    Is there any way for me to acquire Cetiol PGL and/or dicaprylyl carbonate without belonging to a cosmetics company?

    I’m sorry to have written such a long post, but I wanted to convey some sense of the importance of this issue to me. If anyone can offer me any help at all I would be more grateful than you will know.

    Thank you!

    MakingSkincare replied 9 years ago 8 Members · 20 Replies
  • 20 Replies
  • belassi

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    No idea where you are, so that would be useful.

    Have you thought of regulating the production of sebum using (say) an active such as Sebaryl?
    I would make a non-comodegenic cream, possibly a gel, have to think about it, containing tea tree oil to eliminate the yeast, Sebaryl to regulate sebum production, and aloe vera in high concentration to act against inflammation.
    I’d also look closely at your cleaning routine. Are you using store-bought soap? If so it is a synthetic with a pH around neutral. Change to a natural soap (cold process or hot process) (pH = 10). Yeast likes acidic it hates alkaline. Have you tried using African “black” soap?
  • belassi

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 1:35 pm

    And please list the ingredients of that product so that I can check. I note that it’s a Greek company. I think it is unlikely that those Cetiol components are responsible for the improvement you noted. They are just emollients.

  • Chemist77

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    @Belassi Black soap meaning the Moroccan soap which is high in pH (around 12) and is a concoction of oleic acid mainly and alkali. 

    Guess Andy is based in UK as he talks of pounds and Korea to UK flight 

    :D

    @Andy1987 Guess Belassi has made a great point but still if you have this hunch about those 2 ingredients then you search those products where these are used and if you think if any of it closely resembles to what you used then no need to make anything and asking the suppliers for samples. 
  • Andy1987

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 10:02 pm

    Hi Belassi and thank you for your helpful comments. Seborrheic dermatitis is a very difficult condition to treat, and what’s effective for one sufferer may not be so for another. Whilst you’re right to suggest anti-fungal agents such as tea tree oil (which, alas, has done nothing for me), for me moisturizing the affected areas adequately (using the lotion I mentioned) has been absolutely crucial. If a cream or lotion leaves my skin feeling at all greasy or at all tight after application - which all but one of the hundreds of products I’ve tried have done - the condition flares up. My years of experience trying to deal with this problem suggests very strongly that it’s the emollient properties of this product (and specifically the Cetiol PGL, which I suppose leaves a ‘silky’ feel without being either oily or drying) that have worked to treat it. At any rate, here are the product’s ingredients:

    Water, glycerin, hexyldecanol, hexyldecyl laurate, dicaprylyl carbonate, ethylhexyl palmitate, coco-glucoside, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, cetearyl alcohol, sunflower seed oil, hydroxyethyl acrylate/sodium acryloyldimethyl taurate copolymer, jojoba seed oil, butylphenyl methylpropional, Shea butter, caprylyl glycol, citral, coconut alcohol, geraniol, limonene, linalool, magnesium PCA, panthenol, parfum (fragrance), phenoxyethanol, phenylpropanol, polysorbate 60, sodium PCA, sodium stearoyl glutamate, squalane, zinc PCA

    I’ve tried using some of the ingredients contained here in formulations that I’ve made at various quantities, but without positive results. Aloe vera juice in particular seems to dry out my skin horribly and aggravate the problem, and shea butter has a similar effect. Other ingredients I have used from this list include glycerin, sunflower oil, jojoba oil, and squalane. I’ve also used some ‘dry-slip’ emollients that I’ve been able to obtain - namely coco-caprylate, isoeicosane, dimethicone, and isopropyl stearate - but, whilst the lack of oiliness is definitely good for my skin, they’re just not quite moisturizing enough. In case you’re wondering, of the myriad other things I’ve tried, occlusive ingredients such as petroleum jelly, and other substances such as beeswax, cause my skin to chap even at very low concentrations. To answer your question about where I am, I’m from the UK, but I’m currently residing in Japan.

    Any other suggestions are very welcome of course, and the Sebaryl you mentioned looks interesting, but I’m still hoping I might be able to acquire Cetiol PGL from somewhere despite not being attached to a cosmetics company. Any ideas?

    Many thanks once again for your help and time!

  • Andy1987

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 10:05 pm

    Hi Milliachemist, thanks for posting. I’ve tried this, but unfortunately it seems that there isn’t a product out there that uses them without also using ingredients that aggravate the condition, such as lots of shea butter. It’s incredible I know!

  • belassi

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 11:27 pm

    Black soap from Africa - it’s made with shea saponified with ash, so it’s mainly a potassium soap. I have tried it myself. 

    As members of this forum know, I do have problems obtaining ingredients, there are many available in the USA that I can’t buy easily. However, Cetiol is not a problem for me. BASF Mexico supplies it and so, I can get it from one of my factors, namely, Conjunto Lar
    In the UK I would probably be able to obtain it. In Japan, I have no idea unfortunately. Probably Conjunto Lar would ship you a couple of kilos at your own risk. They are good people. I will take a look at your LOI and get back to you. Therapeutic cosmetics are a speciality for me.
  • belassi

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 11:46 pm
    There’s also DeWolf Chemical in the USA

    LOI: (these are all guesses)

    Water, 

    glycerin, 3%

    hexyldecanol, partially esterified Guerbet alcohol - I’ve heard these are a bit special. Needs research. and hexyldecyl laurate (Cetiol PGL). 

    dicaprylyl carbonate, Cetiol CC:
    ethylhexyl palmitate, - possibly Cetiol 868
    <2% coco-glucoside, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, cetearyl alcohol, sunflower seed oil, <1% hydroxyethyl acrylate/sodium acryloyldimethyl taurate copolymer, jojoba seed oil, butylphenyl methylpropional, Shea butter, caprylyl glycol, <0.1% citral, coconut alcohol, geraniol, limonene, linalool, magnesium PCA, panthenol, parfum (fragrance), phenoxyethanol, phenylpropanol, polysorbate 60, sodium PCA, sodium stearoyl glutamate, squalane, zinc PCA
  • belassi

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 11:49 pm

    I have the strong feeling that if you search the BASF formulation database on UL Prospector, you will find this formulation.

  • Chemist77

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 11:51 pm

    @Belassi I am making a soap of Olive oil and KOH with some other oils which they call Acid oil, do you think we are on the same page or the product you refer to is Black Beldi Soap different from Moroccan soap that I do.

  • belassi

    Member
    January 17, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    It will be similar, but Black Soap is literally made using palm ash and shea butter.

  • Andy1987

    Member
    January 18, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Thanks yet again for your helpful (and incredibly fast) responses! It seems that Conjunto Lar sells dicaprylyl carbonate but not Cetiol PGL, whilst DeWolf appears not to ship outside the US (though correct me if I’m wrong on that).

    Just to clarify, though, my main problem is obtaining products like Cetiol PGL without being attached to a cosmetics company. UL Prospector does sell Cetiol PGL but when I try to register on websites like theirs I’m always required to supply a company name and sometimes company contact details. Is there any way around this? Would anyone recommend that I simply enter ‘N/A’ in such boxes and try to register anyway? Are these suppliers not permitted to supply their products to people who don’t belong to certain kinds of businesses? I’m sorry for my lamentable lack of knowledge on the subject!

  • belassi

    Member
    January 18, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Yes I understand. UL Prospector is not so difficult but there are others such as Croda who are. That’s why there is a plethora of sites such as Brambleberry, Lotion Crafters, etc. that exist to supply people in the same position as you are. Unfortunately I have no knowledge of suppliers in Japan. What I did here in Mexico was to use the Yellow Pages initially and phone around to see who had a set of the basics - stuff like emulsifiers, oils, acids, bases, aromas. Then the first one recommended another for some ingredients and so on. These days I can source most of my basic materials in the city, but more exotic materials and actives I order from Mexico City (C. Lar) and a few that I can’t get in Mexico I import from the US (eg Polytrap 6500 which I can buy on EBay easily enough. Hey there’s a thought. Can you find what you want on EBay?)

    You will need to find out who distributes BASF products in Japan and approach them.
  • Sarah

    Member
    January 18, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    Hi Andy,

    I live in NZ and often come across issues where a company will not ship outside the US. There are now companies such as http://www.ship2me.com/ where you get your parcel delivered to them at their US depot and they will then forward it on to you anywhere in the world. Not cheap but for the few critical ingredients I have been unable to source locally it has been worth it.
    Cheers
    Sarah  
  • MakingSkincare

    Member
    January 18, 2015 at 4:58 pm
    Andy, I’m also from the UK.  You can purchase those esters in very small amounts from DIY craft suppliers in Europe:-

    dicaprylyl carbonate:-

    phoenixproducts.co.uk sells the ethylhexyl palmitate

    Regarding the cetiol PGL, I think you can get away without using it.

    Please send me a PM as I might be able to help more.
  • ozgirl

    Member
    January 18, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    The Cetiol PGL and dicapryl carbonate (Cetiol CC) products are made by BASF and my experience (in Australia at least) is that they are unwilling to supply small volumes (<500kg/year) so it makes it difficult for small cosmetic ingredients suppliers to meet these minimums and make them available to individuals. Even small cosmetics companies have trouble meeting these minimums. 

  • Bobzchemist

    Member
    January 19, 2015 at 10:23 am

    My suggestion would be to get in touch with the Japanese Cosmetic Science Society http://www.jcss.jp/sitemap_e.html to see if you can get a consultant or someone who does work for an established cosmetic company to help you out with obtaining ingredients and/or custom-formulating a cream for your skin.

    Unfortunately, the language barrier seems to be frustrating my attempts at searching for any Japanese versions of the US/UK DIY cosmetic sites.
  • Andy1987

    Member
    January 20, 2015 at 7:30 am

    I’ll be posting here again for sure when I have more time, but in the meantime I just wanted to post a quick message to say a huge thank you to everyone who’s contributed to this - what a wonderful community of selfless people you are. Like a said before, I am immensely grateful to all of you. My skin condition often causes me a good deal of pain and stress, but it’s great to know there are people out there willing to help me in my fight to beat it! 

  • Bobzchemist

    Member
    January 20, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Andy,

    I’d be willing to get you a standard sample size of the two Cetiol products you’re looking for (about 4 ounces), but you’d have to pay for my shipping costs to a re-shipper like ship2me, and then it would be between the shipper and you to get the box to Japan. The easiest way to do this is for you to get a fedex account, and then share that account number with me privately. Doing that means that Fedex will directly bill you for my shipping costs, and we won’t have to concern ourselves with money changing hands.
    You might also want to consider establishing yourself as a business or corporation. It’s not that hard in the US, I don’t know about elsewhere. I think that you could legitimately say that you are exploring custom skin treatments for Seborrheic dermatitis  - you don’t need to say that your first customer will be yourself. This might make things easier on sites like Prospector.
  • vitalys

    Member
    January 20, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    Hello Andy,
    The skin condition (let’s say disease) you have got is very complex to cure it merely with topical treatments. It deserves the medical examination of the several systems. I do realize why corticosteroids are not effective and sometimes they could make the seborrheic inflammation even more severe and this depends on microorganisms inevitably disseminated on the skin, the sweat and sebaceous glands and many other factors including the type of the food you are taking everyday.
    However, the topical treatment is extremely relevant and important in treatment the conditions like this. I have analyzed the formulation that seems to help you and come to the following conclusions:
    - I doubt that Cetiol PGL really helps you. It’s just an emollient. Despite of its significant effect in various cosmetics, even its manufacturer notes it brings mostly subjective sensorial effect to the skin. I guess it makes the skin feel better and makes it softer, but it doesn’t treat the condition.
    - Nevertheless, there is an ingredient in the formulation you have mentioned above that theoretically helps you – Citral. This ingredient is a regular part of essential oils, derived especially from citruses. At the same time it’s an active ingredient with a strong antimicrobial and anti inflammatory properties. Old fashioned Pharmacopeia has showed a wide usage of this chemical against many disorders and diseases including seborrheic conditions. I assume that Citral is the main explanation why your skin is getting better and you feel relief from the disease. I also could guess that other ingredients from your formulation help to achieve the desirable effect – Panthenol along with Squalene, which is also, would be helpful in treatment of seborrheic like disorders while all other ingredients all together is a very good cocktail of different emollients and moisturizers.
    Beside the cosmetic topical treatment and corticosteroids, have you ever tried or probably being recommended to use different approaches to the cure? For instance – the use of Vit A derivatives or components of NMF (Natural Moisturizing Factor), Benzoyl peroxide, Salicylic acid or some special washing products?

  • MakingSkincare

    Member
    June 8, 2015 at 9:49 am

    Andy if you are still looking for a diy homecrafter supplier which sells Cetiol PGL in small amounts, here’s one in Italy - http://www.glamourcosmetics.it/en/gc-pgl-oil

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